Top battery off to 90% every day?

[Maxx]

Have you measured "toasty"?

No. I just see power available is at 100% instead of 85%.

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[Maxx]

Our testing shows that a 90% delta (95% SOC to 5% SOC) has the most degradation at normal temperatures.

Can you spell this out for a civilian? Do you charge and discharge a 30% delta battery three times as often as a 90% delta battery when you compare degradation? Or the same number of charge and discharges?

 

[WhipSticks]

The point where Palmer explains the 90% recommendation:

Palmer says something interesting here. He says that if customers treat their battery "gently", that he thinks, "we can give them more range... over the air".
SO, if we keep to a 90% limit and charge frequently (small deltas), and don't overuse the DC fast charging infrastructure, Ford might be able to (one day) distribute an OTA update that adjusts the GOM favorably relative to battery abusers? Is that what you hear him say, or is that just me?

 

[RickLightning]

Palmer says something interesting here. He says that if customers treat their battery "gently", that he thinks, "we can give them more range... over the air".
SO, if we keep to a 90% limit and charge frequently (small deltas), and don't overuse the DC fast charging infrastructure, Ford might be able to (one day) distribute an OTA update that adjusts the GOM favorably relative to battery abusers? Is that what you hear him say, or is that just me?

No, that's not what he's saying.

The GOM is a predictor of range. What he is saying is that Ford will open up more of the battery to use. The ER battery has 131kWh available to use. I believe it is officially 148kWh. That's 17kWh you can't use.

The 2021 Mach-E shipped with a 68kWh and an 88kWh available battery (I believe the total size is 98kWh on the ER, don't remember what the SR is). In 2022 Ford modified the available battery to 71 and 91 respectively, matching what the 2022 was sold with. So that's an increase of 4.4% and 3.4% respectively.

It also tells you that when you get close to 8 years / 100,000 miles, and your official Ford measured capacity is 69% of the original, Ford can simply open up 2% of the capacity and you will be at 71% and no warranty claim can be made.

 

[TheWoo]

Palmer says something interesting here. He says that if customers treat their battery "gently", that he thinks, "we can give them more range... over the air".
SO, if we keep to a 90% limit and charge frequently (small deltas), and don't overuse the DC fast charging infrastructure, Ford might be able to (one day) distribute an OTA update that adjusts the GOM favorably relative to battery abusers? Is that what you hear him say, or is that just me?

I take it as Ford would be willing to reallocate some of the current buffer to usable storage if the vast majority of people were following the 90% recommendation rather than charging to 100% every time.

 

[SmoothJ]

I charge to 90% daily, pre-con every day in the winter time, and only drive to work on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

Out of that 90%, I maybe use 15-20% for the commute, and maybe a bit more on the weekends.

 

[RickLightning]

I take it as Ford would be willing to reallocate some of the current buffer to usable storage if the vast majority of people were following the 90% recommendation rather than charging to 100% every time.

If you listen to what Darren says, he basically says this (I am paraphrasing for fun):

- If you treat the battery crappy, you get no more capacity.

- If you treat it nice, you get more.

He says very clearly that this can be done on an individual basis. Mary, who treats her battery like her ex-husband, won't get as much capacity as Sam, who each night whispers sweet nothings to his battery...

Of course they would do broad strokes, maybe like this:

- Nice, gets a boost of X%.

- Really nice gets a boost of Y%.

- Not nice gets no boost.

 

[ddbrooke]

Here is an interesting tidbit of info related to preconditioning. Two days ago my truck sat outside unplugged with temps in the mid 20's. I plugged my OBD device in to see that my HVB was sitting at about 34 deg. Yesterday I had it plugged in overnight, which triggers my 7am departure time, and the battery temp was at 64 deg with the same 20ish deg ambient temps.

 

[RickLightning]

Here is an interesting tidbit of info related to preconditioning. Two days ago my truck sat outside unplugged with temps in the mid 20's. I plugged my OBD device in to see that my HVB was sitting at about 34 deg. Yesterday I had it plugged in overnight, which triggers my 7am departure time, and the battery temp was at 64 deg with the same 20ish deg ambient temps.

Right. On the Mach-E, it seemed to go to 59. Whereas when I preconditioned on the way to a charger, it went to mid-70s.

 

[Maxx]

Here is an interesting tidbit of info related to preconditioning. Two days ago my truck sat outside unplugged with temps in the mid 20's. I plugged my OBD device in to see that my HVB was sitting at about 34 deg. Yesterday I had it plugged in overnight, which triggers my 7am departure time, and the battery temp was at 64 deg with the same 20ish deg ambient temps.

Thanks for sharing that.

side note: I always thought people in cold climates would be buying less EVs because of battery performance in cold. So I was surprised when I saw this:

 

[RickLightning]

Thanks for sharing that.

side note: I always thought people in cold climates would be buying less EVs because of battery performance in cold. So I was surprised when I saw this:

Right. It is a great response when some says "EVs don't work in the cold".

Really? Top 5 countries....

 

[Jim Lewis]

I always thought people in cold climates would be buying less EVs because of battery performance in cold.

Heat is the enemy of Li-ion batteries and although voltage (and usable capacity in terms of deliverable power) drops in the cold, moderate cold actually slows Li-ion elapsed time-related aging (and you recover usable capacity when the battery warms up). Can't find a quote now, but I once read that Elon Musk joked that a Tesla battery would probably last forever in Alaska. The opposite is true for a Tesla parked mostly in an unshaded open lot in Phoenix, Arizona. The BMS will not keep the battery as cool as in Alaska, and there will be a lot more charge cycling because of BMS activity. (I imagine in Alaska, you just keep the battery from freezing solid and only really use energy to warm it up when you're going to drive the vehicle, whereas in Phoenix, when it's 130 or 140 deg F in a lot, the BMS is going to be working overtime to keep the battery within acceptable limits).

 

[Maxx]

.., whereas in Phoenix, when it's 130 or 140 deg F in a lot, the BMS is going to be working overtime to keep the battery within acceptable limits).

we don’t get those kinda temps in my state. My truck has been in shade for most of summer except one day that it was fully exposed in our vacation property driveway in a 90+ degree day. When I turned on the truck, the fan went bananas. Made me wonder if it is doing any battery cooling at all when it is off.

 

[Jim Lewis]

See the following chart of air temperature vs. black asphalt temperature (with presumably the temperature of air right above the asphalt close to that if there is not much of a breeze):

Source: How hot does pavement get in summer? | Climate and Agriculture in the Southeast (uga.edu)

A Ford rep in a call I made to Ford.com specifically to ask at what temperature the BMS kicks in for a Lightning told me it was 100 deg F, whether the Lightning was plugged in or not: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...weather-when-not-plugged-in.15313/post-327623

P.S. Besides the air temperature above the asphalt, you'll also get the very hot asphalt radiating heat directly at the battery, literally "black body radiation!"

 

[Jseis]

FWIW I charge to 80% daily. In Sport mode all the time. Our winter here in coastal Wa is so mild I’m always over 300 miles of range. I could probably charge every other day but don’t. Typically use 30-40 kilowatts a day (just checking on your megawatt knowledge LOL !).

Rarely charge to 100%. Big city driving I’ll charge 90-95%.

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