NACS Extension Cable Coming From Tesla

[reffahcs]

I am guessing, like most issues in life it is all about money. Real estate needed to do it correctly cost more.

Yeah that's a good point. And thinking about it now, I'm guessing they are like restaurants where they want fast turn over and not people to sit there forever? It would definitely be interesting to see financials of a EV charging station compared to a gas station. Maybe it wouldn't be much of a comparison, never thought about it before until just now... well hopefully they get things figured out. It seems there are at least some EV charging stations going up that are more like traditional gas stations in terms of layout.

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[Maxx]

Yeah that's a good point. And thinking about it now, I'm guessing they are like restaurants where they want fast turn over and not people to sit there forever? It would definitely be interesting to see financials of a EV charging station compared to a gas station. Maybe it wouldn't be much of a comparison, never thought about it before until just now... well hopefully they get things figured out. It seems there are at least some EV charging stations going up that are more like traditional gas stations in terms of layout.

Sometimes providers will have to work with customer's limitations:

https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/7-...-design-fuel-and-convenience-retail-locations

 

[Cosmacelf]

Rivian responded that Tesla shouldn’t dictate where manufacturers need to put their charge port and that Tesla should make their Charge cords long enough to reach all vehicles.

I agree with Rivian.

Thing is Tesla has about 25,000 North American stalls and they aren't about to change cable length or port location for all that installed hardware. Sure, new V4 stalls will help, but it'll take a long while to overcome that installed base (like 10 years).

So Rivian can say things like that, but it isn't going to change Tesla's mind. It is too expensive to do. Meanwhile there is zero cost to changing port locations of a new car that hasn't been completely designed yet.

Something that few appreciate is just how expensive it is to properly run a charging network that has minimal down time. Tesla has a fleet of flatbeds with diesel generators on them that get rolled out whenever there is an extensive outage in a critical location. They also get used on very busy holiday weekends at choke points. They treat every stall outage as an emergency and dispatch techs immediately. And crap happens like vandalism and random capacitors blowing up. People make the ridiculous comparison of $0.20 retail kWh rates versus Supercharger $0.50 kWh rates and are outraged. Tesla is the only large charging network that is actually making money and/or breaking even, the rest are losing money hand over fist.

And the reason why Tesla can break even is that they've designed their infrastructure to be as inexpensive as possible while still being reliable. And yes, this means minimal pull through spots and no islands like they have at gas stations.

At some point Tesla or others will have more island charging stalls, but I suspect they'll be charging a premium to use those stalls, like a 30% more per kWh fee. Cue the outrage.

 

[F150ROD]

Thing is Tesla has about 25,000 North American stalls and they aren't about to change cable length or port location for all that installed hardware. Sure, new V4 stalls will help, but it'll take a long while to overcome that installed base (like 10 years).

So Rivian can say thing like that, but it isn't going to change Tesla's mind. It is too expensive to do. Meanwhile there is zero cost to changing port locations of a new car that hasn't been completely designed yet.

Something that few appreciate is just how expensive it is to properly run a charging network that has minimal down time. Tesla has a fleet of flatbeds with diesel generators on them that get rolled out whenever there is an extensive outage in a critical location. They also get used on very busy holiday weekends at choke points. They treat every stall outage as an emergency and dispatch techs immediately. And crap happens like vandalism and random capacitors blowing up. People make the ridiculous comparison of $0.20 retail kWh rates versus Supercharger $0.50 kWh rates and are outraged. Tesla is the only large charging network that is actually making money and/or breaking even, the rest are losing money hand over fist.

And the reason why Tesla can break even is that they've designed their infrastructure to be as inexpensive as possible while still being reliable. And yes, this means minimal pull through spots and no islands like they have at gas stations.

At some point Tesla or others will have more island charging stalls, but I suspect they'll be charging a premium to use those stalls, like a 30% more per kWh fee. Cue the outrage.

And that’s fine, no one expects them to change the old stalls. However, the Government money they are receiving is to accommodate all vehicles and going forward which they should.

 

[Cosmacelf]

And that’s fine, no one expects them to change the old stalls. However, the Government money they are receiving is to accommodate all vehicles and going forward which they should.

Yes, new NEVI funding requires longer cables, Magicdocks, CC readers and screens. All of which costs more money, which the govt pays for.

 

[TaxmanHog]

At some point Tesla or others will have more island charging stalls, but I suspect they'll be charging a premium to use those stalls, like a 30% more per kWh fee. Cue the outrage.

Towing, I would pay for that privilege because not having to disconnect my trailer many times on a long trip has time value, charging more keeps the economy minded concentrated in the compact stall area and leaves the pull throughs for me and those who don't pay attention or don't care about costs.

 

[Silenze]

A2Z is coming out with an extension cable. It's 300$
https://a2zevshop.com/collections/u...cts/tesla-nacs-dc-supercharger-extension-cord

 

[VTbuckeye]

The tough part of the economics of dcfc is that many users only need them some of the time. Not only that, but peak usage can be vastly different than non-peak usage. They are more expensive with high utilization than low utilization, but not as different as the actual utilization. If Tesla makes plenty of money on the cars, the supercharger network can be a loss leader as long as it helps sell the cars (which it does). Like the difference between an independent pharmacy and a Walmart pharmacy. The independent needs to make money filling prescriptions. Walmart needs to have someone show up for their drugs where they might break even as long as they can sell some toilet paper, garden supplies, and some kids toys the job of the pharmacy is to bring people into the store. In fact this may be why dcfc locations are often at Walmart (high power electric supply, bathrooms, stuff to buy while people wait for 20 to 45 minutes).

I have 84 vehicle months (51k miles) in EVs and have used dcfc once. I probably would have made it home with a few percent even if I didn't charge, but I had time and wanted to make sure it worked properly. Sorry, I have not been doing my part to support dcfc. If everyone was like me (and many other EV owners) there would be no dcfc available where you need it.

 

[Chado]

Nothing wrong with Tesla suggesting the port location, it's really the most obvious solution instead of modifying every existing charging station.

If other manufactures are not happy about it then they shouldn't use the Tesla charge port.

I mean it's already embarrassing enough that to get the discounted rate non Tesla owners have to have the Tesla app on their phone, it's like a slap in the face for some.

 

[GoodSam]

It's an input charge port, not an output path for electricity

It is an output port for those with home backup systems, but I would think should be disconnected while driving .

 

[cal]

Serious things have to happen to get anything out of a charge port. That's why it costs so much and is so expensive to install multiple systems to work as a backup source.

Never heard of any ev charge port causing any type of problem in an accident. Just saw a CT with a crash badly damaged charge port on the CT forums.



Another crash pic showed the rear panel particially peeled back from a crash. Pretty interesting given the sludge hammer proof demo.

 

[detansinn]

Putting the charge port at the rear of a pickup truck is dumb, because you can't charge with the tailgate down. If you're carrying a motorcycle in the back of a CT, you can't charge at a Supercharger.

I've covered more than 2k miles since Supercharger access opened up. I don't see cable length as an issue until you run into a busy supercharger. In that scenario, it's entirely possible for you to run into a situation where you can't charge, because all of the stalls are occupied and you basically need the right end spot or two adjacent spots to open up.

See the video below. There were people lined up to use this busy supercharger station and some diplomacy on my part was required. I guided the next person in line to take the "empty" spot next to my truck so she could plug in as soon as I was done. I was lucky to get there when a couple of spots right next to each other were available before a queue formed.

For most of the superchargers that I visit, I am often the only one there, but if you're going to spend time charging in a metro or densely populated area, I could see a 9-10ft extension cable being a very useful thing, because it would allow you to charge within a single stall without waiting for adjacent stalls to open up.

 

[Heliian]

Tesla is the only large charging network that is actually making money and/or breaking eve

Are they? How do they factor in all the free charging? Does anyone have the actual figures on the charger business? Does that include grants?

but I suspect they'll be charging a premium to use those stalls, like a 30% more per kWh fee

They already vary their prices by location and you can 100% expect to see surge pricing on the current poor designs coming real soon.

 

[detansinn]

Something that few appreciate is just how expensive it is to properly run a charging network that has minimal down time. Tesla has a fleet of flatbeds with diesel generators on them that get rolled out whenever there is an extensive outage in a critical location. They also get used on very busy holiday weekends at choke points. They treat every stall outage as an emergency and dispatch techs immediately. And crap happens like vandalism and random capacitors blowing up. People make the ridiculous comparison of $0.20 retail kWh rates versus Supercharger $0.50 kWh rates and are outraged. Tesla is the only large charging network that is actually making money and/or breaking even, the rest are losing money hand over fist.

And the reason why Tesla can break even is that they've designed their infrastructure to be as inexpensive as possible while still being reliable. And yes, this means minimal pull through spots and no islands like they have at gas stations.

At some point Tesla or others will have more island charging stalls, but I suspect they'll be charging a premium to use those stalls, like a 30% more per kWh fee. Cue the outrage.

At nearly every Supercharger station that I have visited, there has been a charger down. I appreciate that 1 charger out of 12 being down is better reliability than 1 out of 4 being down, but I am still using Plugshare to know what I am getting into with a Supercharger location. Be warned that there are some clunkers out there. For example, I recently avoided a Supercharger location that had a Plugshare score of 5.2 due to chargers being down and/or unable to meet rate. Are Superchargers better maintained? Sure, I've witnessed Tesla repair a down charger in less than 48 hours, but there's no magic here.

In fairness to EA, they've truly stepped up their game. Reliability is significantly better than it was even six months ago. I regularly see maintenance personal working on the chargers. Sure, they cranked up their rates to do it, but I am happy to pay for reliability.

The claim that Tesla is the only charging network that is "actually making money" and/or breaking even... Well, yeah, I am going to challenge that one. Most of the Supercharger locations that I have encountered in my travels look like this.

Tesla is not opening their network out of sheer benevolence. They need greater utilization numbers for all of these charging locations, ie. they need to be generating more revenue from their Supercharger network. I'm glad that Farley was able to persuade them to do it, because it really is to everyone's benefit.

 

[Cosmacelf]

How do they factor in all the free charging?

It’s a small percentage of their sold cars by now. They stopped doing that just before their first mass market vehicle, the Model 3, started shipping.

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