Real world heating data for 2024 in the cold

[potato]

I don't own a Lightning so I don't know how much energy use goes to HVAC if you drive your pack down, but assuming it was 10%

4 or 5% for long highway trips for me. Attached screenshot is a cross country trip in my 23 from BC to Ontario and back in early April, so cool temperatures that would've been ideal for a heat pump. I have another 2000 km trip where the trip meter said 4%. I did one trip in -30 C that was 17% but the heat pump is not going to help much in those temperatures anyway I think.

That's my point - yes, the heat pump can be a big reduction in the energy used for heating, but that energy for cabin heat is pretty small in the big picture. Even if it's an 80% reduction, which seems optimistic, it would mean climate energy went from 5% to 1%. A ~4% increase in range so ~12 miles on the ER battery.

For an efficient small car it's a bigger percentage. For our behemoths with the gigantic battery, cabin heat isn't as big of a deal. The way I see it.

(Edit to add: that 5% number below includes 7 or 8 nights sleeping in the truck with the heat on.)

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[JerseyMike]

I don’t trust the range meter. I just calculate based on percentage used and assumption of 131kwh capacity of the pack.

Agree but to compare apples to apples it helps….im shocked the stock ER with heat pump would have only 9 more miles than my modded SR without a heat pump

 

[PAndaemonium]

For what it's worth, I'm another MN guy living in the twin cities. It's been low teens with below zero wind chills for the last week. 1.8 with those stats is pretty good.

I have a '23 XLT ER and averaged 1.4mi/kwh, 69* cabin, mostly highway miles (speeds 55-75mph) and did about 200 miles this week. I took a significant hit in range vs 2.0-2.2 in above freezing temps.

 

[brirr76]

I'm trying to capture data like this in my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@MNEVTravels

I'm going from KC, Missouri to New Ulm, MN area late December for the family Christmas trip and hope to gather some data to share. It's around 450 miles one-way so I'm excited to see what happens. I'm expecting to be at destination location (rural) with possible cold temps so not sure what to expect yet. Plenty of superchargers along I-35N to keep wife and girls happy (hopefully). I'm thinking I can drop them off at Dollar General or Walmart and then plug in for my 30-ISH minutes of fast-charge. Maybe in MN I can convince them to plug me in a 120V to maintain overnight. Part of me wants to plug in one night and not the next night and compare the difference.

 

[John Becker]

I'm thinking back to the late 1970s when it was 25 degrees below zero in Cincinnati.
Would a heat pump work at that temperature? If not, does the Lightning have a resistance heater backup? If not, how cold is too cold for the truck to function? Does the battery pack use a different heating system than the cabin uses?

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm thinking back to the late 1970s when it was 25 degrees below zero in Cincinnati.
Would a heat pump work at that temperature? If not, does the Lightning have a resistance heater backup? If not, how cold is too cold for the truck to function? Does the battery pack use a different heating system than the cabin uses?

I haven't seen any documentation yet on the 24+ HVAC system as a whole, if they retained the PTC for battery warming purposes a few changes to the plumbing might have been made so that the cabin heater core is an alternate destination instead of a primary destination as it is in 22 & 23 Lightnings.

Munro & Associates needs to do a deep dive for us.

BTW, they might use the HP for thermal management of the battery also, (warming & cooling), I'm really curious to understand all the technical changes.

 

[Ventorum94]

I will say that the heat pump appears quite effective. Not until it was below 30F did I see efficiency go below 2.0 mi/kwh

There‘s a tendency for us to blame lower range in extreme cold on the use of cabin heating (and focus on trying to improve its efficiency). But isn't range loss mainly the impact of extreme cold on battery capability, rather than loss of efficiency (caused by use of cabin heating, whether resistive or heat pump)? Isn‘t drivetrain efficiency mi/kWh the same in cold as it is in warm, other than use of cabin heating vs. cabin cooling? I thought the main challenge of winter driving wasn‘t loss of efficiency, but loss of kWh available from the battery. Some of you hard winter types please clarify for me!

 

[Firn]

There‘s a tendency for us to blame lower range in extreme cold on the use of cabin heating (and focus on trying to improve its efficiency). But isn't range loss mainly the impact of extreme cold on battery capability, rather than loss of efficiency (caused by use of cabin heating, whether resistive or heat pump)? Isn‘t drivetrain efficiency mi/kWh the same in cold as it is in warm, other than use of cabin heating vs. cabin cooling? I thought the main challenge of winter driving wasn‘t loss of efficiency, but loss of kWh available from the battery. Some of you hard winter types please clarify for me!

Although I think there is some loss, I don't think we would see that as efficiency numbers. The truck is monitoring current and voltage and I have to imagine it is using that, not estimated capacity, to determine miles/kWh.

Although I do think there is a fair bit of energy in cabin heating i don't think it is the bulk of range loss. There is also a fair bit of energy in battery heating, and with as big of a battery, and as large of a surface area, that's a lot of BTUs lost.

When monitoring my truck yesterday in 25f temps the heater seemed to be maintaining the battery at around 41F (5C). When first jumping in the truck after it had been sitting for about an hour it was pulling about 7-8kW on the heater but battery heat mode was "off", so I believe that was going into the cabin. After the cabin warmed I saw the battery heater mode switch to "equi" or something similar and the heater was pulling around 5kW and coolant inlet temp went up to about 41-42F.

Back to efficiency.
Cabin heat will pull some energy, battery heat will pull some more, the motors themselves are cooler and the fluid is more thick, plus air density is a fair bit more. I believe all of these combined result in the efficiency loss.

 

[Jlarbeypro]

I owned a 22 pro for 80k miles. in the winter cab heating accounted for nearly 15-20% if <20 degrees.

now with my 24 flash, w/ heat pump, Im seeing 6-8% cab heating <20 degrees.

1.8mi/kwh hwy speed <20 degrees on my 24, 1.7 mi/kwh on 22 pro, sometime 1.6 at hwy speeds

improvement for sure. NVH is increased with the heat pump but only when first starting the truck for the first several minutes as others have said, it is no longer noticeable after that.

 

[utekineir]

does the heat pump in 24+ change how battery warming is handled as well?

My general feelings have been that with a 130 kwh battery resistive heating a cabin should only have a reasonably small amount of gains that can be realized, likely 5-10% in overall range depending on the span of driving.

Would love to see a comparison of same conditions of non hp vs hp, missed opportunity for some yt channel.

 

[TaxmanHog]

does the heat pump in 24+ change how battery warming is handled as well?

My general feelings have been that with a 130 kwh battery resistive heating a cabin should only have a reasonably small amount of gains that can be realized, likely 5-10% in overall range depending on the span of driving.

Would love to see a comparison of same conditions of non hp vs hp, missed opportunity for some yt channel.

We have not seen any technical details about the thermal management system on 24+ Lightnings, I second the notion that a high profile EV Tech YT channel could do us a great service with an overview, even @Ford Motor Company might consider making a tech briefing for the curious potential customers.

 

[astrand1]

i have a 23 Lariat ER and am in michigan. of course being a 23 i have the resistive heater. We just had a cold spell the last few weeks. temps between 15-30. i keep the hvac usually around 70 in auto. ive honestly been impressed with my usage. ive been around 1.9-2.2 depending. i do have an unheated garage it sits in and i keep it plugged in. i use departure times as well to condition the battery which im sure helps. but overall i dont see that big of an issue. I was expecting worse. When i do get into it cold and power on i love how fast heat is generated.

 

[Vcrpromo]

For all those potential shoppers out there wondering if this truck is for them, I’d like to add my 0.02.

I own a 24 Lariat and live in the frigid state of MN but in the metro area which is lots of sprawl.

I run heated seats and heated steering wheel always with cabin temp at 72F. At most my commutes will hit 120 miles per day but with traffic since I’m in the suburbs, that’s typically a 45 mph average. If you calculate the MPH average for my trip today, it’s 28 because it’s very slick out today on the roads. Quite frankly anyone doing 70mph when it’s sub freezing is being pretty risky.

So on this blustery cold day of 18F, here’s my data with preconditioning to start the day off. I have a home charger and I consider that a prerequisite for EV ownership. If charged to 90% per Ford recommendations, this gives me a range of about 210.

.y 2023 lightening use to give me 210 miles on a 90% charge but now that it's colder it only gives me 190 miles for a 90 % charge, is that normal I just bought the truck in April of this year?

 

[TaxmanHog]

My 2023 lightning use to give me 210 miles on a 90% charge but now that it's colder it only gives me 190 miles for a 90 % charge, is that normal I just bought the truck in April of this year?

I think this season the GOM is being a little more realistic.

BTW, suggest you update your vehicle description to say "23 Ford Lightning SR" I'm assuming you have an SR based on the values stated.

 

[husky10101]

i have a 23 Lariat ER and am in michigan. of course being a 23 i have the resistive heater. We just had a cold spell the last few weeks. temps between 15-30. i keep the hvac usually around 70 in auto. ive honestly been impressed with my usage. ive been around 1.9-2.2 depending. i do have an unheated garage it sits in and i keep it plugged in. i use departure times as well to condition the battery which im sure helps. but overall i dont see that big of an issue. I was expecting worse. When i do get into it cold and power on i love how fast heat is generated.

Same here, I do the same as this gentleman and around low teens to single digits outside, at 90% charged guess o meter says around 233 miles and at 65 MPH I am anywhere between 1.8 to 2.2 when driving to the nearest town 30 min away. In the summer 90% shows 250 - 255 miles and 2.2 - 2.5. Have a 2023 Lariat ER.

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