Why isn’t the Lightning getting more of the gas F150 market?

[MountainAlive]

The pickup truck crowd is probably the most difficult to convince to go EV. But it’s mainly because of all the intentional misinformation being spread about EVs. It’s intended to divide us against each other and it’s being pushed by lobbyists from the oil and gas industry, auto mechanics groups, and the vast world of auto parts suppliers. All of which become a tiny fraction of their size once EVs become the dominant vehicle type. But it’s akin to the switch from film cameras to digital cameras. At some point any auto makers not switching earnestly over to EVs will become the next Polaroid and Kodak of the world. This transition simply can’t be stopped with tariffs and pretending it’s not happening.

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[flyct]

My experience with Ford sales reps is that they generally don’t like EVs. I’ve bought and flipped 10 F series diesel and gas trucks for towing my 5th wheel in the last 10 years. Every time I’m negotiating an ICE F-350 or 450 the sales reps bad mouth EVs not knowing I own one. Even when I pull up in a Tesla I get the sense they hate the car.

My neighbor is the Fleet Sales manager at a big Ford dealership. I’ve ordered and bought 3 of my 10 recent trucks (F-350 F-450s) from him. When he sees me driving by his house in my Tesla or my Lightning he shakes his head. He drives a new F-150 ICE every year.

 

[flyct]

The pickup truck crowd is probably the most difficult to convince to go EV. But it’s mainly because of all the intentional misinformation being spread about EVs. It’s intended to divide us against each other and it’s being pushed by lobbyists from the oil and gas industry, auto mechanics groups, and the vast world of auto parts suppliers. All of which become a tiny fraction of their size once EVs become the dominant vehicle type. But it’s akin to the switch from film cameras to digital cameras. At some point any auto makers not switching earnestly over to EVs will become the next Polaroid and Kodak of the world. This transition simply can’t be stopped with tariffs and pretending it’s not happening.

^^^ Great observation. Rochester NY was the home of Polaroid, Kodak and Xerox. It’s much different now than it was before the turn of the century.

 

[Chillguy]

My 5 cents is this: I've been driving small EVs for the past 13 years and loving every minute of it while I lived in NYC. But I always had an ice F-150 for family trips since we had a second home 200 miles away. I finally bought my Lightning this year after I moved out to NYC and replaced my small EV and ice F-150. My Lightning Platinum is by far the best vehicle I've ever owned. I've had ppl start talking to me many times about the vehicle especially when I have my frunk popped open. I even had one fella walk up and offer to call a tow truck before I told him there's no need! Lol... And every time I talk to people about the truck I realize that general public has absolutely no idea about EVs in general with exception of Teslas and these don't appeal to a lot of people (like me for example). So it'll take time for the general public to get educated about EVs especially if legacy automakers do not make any effort to do so and dealerships still push ICE vehicles because those are the most lucrative to them (especially when they come back for service after purchasing). Range wise I have zero problems.. I use only Tesla Superchargers and Google maps and absolutely love it! It's cheaper for me then anywhere else and super convenient too. I usually stop every about 200 miles and my truck is always charged up to 80% or more BEFORE I'm done using bathroom and getting coffee or soft drinks or maybe a quick bite.
So to summarize yes, you can always find a reason to complain about about one detail or another HOWEVER for me is the sum of all things and this truck checks out all the boxes for me and I couldn't be happier!

 

[Ventorum94]

Why do you think is holding back the Lightning from capturing more of those huge gas sales?

All that needs to happen is for the price of gasoline to again reach toward $5/gal, and there won’t be enough Lightnings available to satisfy the demand.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Had I not had a wonderful 75.000+ miles with our Mach E Mustang, with cross-country trips etc., I would have never ever considered the Lightning. I worked out all my HOW TO tricks and hacks of living with an EV with the now-gone Mach E. Once our Mach E started to mechanically shake apart, then the Lightning became the obvious choice.

With this practical experience as a guide, I think that for the foreseeable future (3 - 5+ years maybe?) most new Lightning owners will come from upgrading from their 1st, other, less well-rounded, more single-focus EV.

Once a driver / owner / user understands the adaptations necessary to be comfortable with an EV, the Lightning becomes the clear upgrade path in terms of utility, multi-use, etc. etc.

I also base this opinion on seeing several current and former Mach E Forum members, here on this Lightning forum (you know who You are haha).

We ordered the Lightning on release day. Then got tired of waiting and sold our car for a profit (used car values in 2022 were wild) after we ordered a Mustang. The Mustang arrived first. Then when the Lightning we ordered was ready for purchase, it was $20k more than we expected. So we kept the Tacoma and thoroughly enjoyed the Mustang. We went on a 2200 mile camping/eclipse road trip with the Tacoma and it was a miserable trip. Nearly every gas station had lines, we got terrible mileage, and the Tacoma is a miserably uncomfortable vehicle to ride in after driving the Mustang. So we got home, pinged Ford dealers (the one in our town is anti-EV, so we didn't even bother to talk to them), compared the R1T and the Lightning, didn't hear anything from the Ford dealers, so started the purchase of an R1T. A Ford dealer texted me while I was filling out the paperwork for the R1T. We got the Lightning for $23k less than MSRP and they delivered it to us 2.5 hours from the lot.

Incredibly happy with being all-electric and cannot imagine stopping at a gas station again.

 

[Grumpy2]

All that needs to happen is for the price of gasoline to again reach toward $5/gal, and there won’t be enough Lightnings available to satisfy the demand.

A tariff on Canada may do just that.

 

[broncoaz]

The pickup truck crowd is probably the most difficult to convince to go EV. But it’s mainly because of all the intentional misinformation being spread about EVs. It’s intended to divide us against each other and it’s being pushed by lobbyists from the oil and gas industry, auto mechanics groups, and the vast world of auto parts suppliers. All of which become a tiny fraction of their size once EVs become the dominant vehicle type. But it’s akin to the switch from film cameras to digital cameras. At some point any auto makers not switching earnestly over to EVs will become the next Polaroid and Kodak of the world. This transition simply can’t be stopped with tariffs and pretending it’s not happening.

I agree you are correct with respect to intentional misinformation and lobbyists, unfortunately it’s working and the fear is reinforced by calls for banning new ICE cars from being sold at some arbitrary date in the future. Basically everyone wants clean air and water, but they also fear what they don’t know. Why would they want to be stripped of their choice of an ICE vehicle that they know and understand when all they think they know is that EV’s are expensive, don’t go that far, don’t work well in cold, will leave them stranded, can be controlled by gov’t to take away their freedoms, etc. It seems like simple physiology, people need to come to the decision that EV’s are for them without being forced by the hand of government. Politicians need to drop the idea of banning new ICE vehicles at some future date and let the market forces dictate the pace of change. Incentivize improving the charging network, standardize the charging network, and incentivize companies to develop better batteries and build them here in the US. The cars and trucks are basically good enough as is, generally far exceeding the performance and capability of ICE

Add in the vilification of Musk (synonymous with EV’s) by the side that supports EV’s because of politics and people who might consider arguably the best entry level EV (Model 3 or Y) are walking away to a worse EV experience with a different brand or just sticking with ICE. I had a conversation with a woman in Provincetown, Ma a couple months ago at a professional networking event. We were talking about solar and EV’s, she said she would like to transition but the Audi EV she wanted was too expensive. I suggested that I really liked my Y and it was far more affordable than the Audi. I even offered to let her take mine for a spin. Her attitude completely changed, she said that she could never support Elon and that he was scum. I suggested she should buy the best car for the money, not the CEO. She ended the conversation.

We’re left with one side’s distaste for EV’s based on fear and the other side shying away from them over contempt of one man’s politics. Yes, we are stupid.

 

[Maineiac12]

I agree you are correct with respect to intentional misinformation and lobbyists, unfortunately it’s working and the fear is reinforced by calls for banning new ICE cars from being sold at some arbitrary date in the future. Basically everyone wants clean air and water, but they also fear what they don’t know. Why would they want to be stripped of their choice of an ICE vehicle that they know and understand when all they think they know is that EV’s are expensive, don’t go that far, don’t work well in cold, will leave them stranded, can be controlled by gov’t to take away their freedoms, etc. It seems like simple physiology, people need to come to the decision that EV’s are for them without being forced by the hand of government. Politicians need to drop the idea of banning new ICE vehicles at some future date and let the market forces dictate the pace of change. Incentivize improving the charging network, standardize the charging network, and incentivize companies to develop better batteries and build them here in the US. The cars and trucks are basically good enough as is, generally far exceeding the performance and capability of ICE

Add in the vilification of Musk (synonymous with EV’s) by the side that supports EV’s because of politics and people who might consider arguably the best entry level EV (Model 3 or Y) are walking away to a worse EV experience with a different brand or just sticking with ICE. I had a conversation with a woman in Provincetown, Ma a couple months ago at a professional networking event. We were talking about solar and EV’s, she said she would like to transition but the Audi EV she wanted was too expensive. I suggested that I really liked my Y and it was far more affordable than the Audi. I even offered to let her take mine for a spin. Her attitude completely changed, she said that she could never support Elon and that he was scum. I suggested she should buy the best car for the money, not the CEO. She ended the conversation.

We’re left with one side’s distaste for EV’s based on fear and the other side shying away from them over contempt of one man’s politics. Yes, we are stupid.

I can understand the impulse regarding Tesla, though. Elon has injected himself into politics and culture more than any CEO in recent history. His antics are doing his companies a disservice IMO. I’m willing to bet most CEOs have similar political leanings but they keep their opinions quieter and play both sides to maximize value, whereas Elon is actively antagonizing half the county on a daily basis.

 

[B177y]

I got this STX loaner while my Lightning was getting fixed and with it 700 miles of range for $50k this is where I think our trucks need to get eventually to capture more of the 700k+ gas F150 sales. My original post on X / Twitter hit 75k+ views, so I went deeper with this video! Why do you think is holding back the Lightning from capturing more of those huge gas sales?

I wrote a post last night and watched your video this morning. Great video, and I love the conversations that this thread has started.

 

[Cbowe]

Thanks for watching and checking it out I love seeing all the thoughts! There have been some great ones I missed

 

[broncoaz]

I can understand the impulse regarding Tesla, though. Elon has injected himself into politics and culture more than any CEO in recent history. His antics are doing his companies a disservice IMO. I’m willing to bet most CEOs have similar political leanings but they keep their opinions quieter and play both sides to maximize value, whereas Elon is actively antagonizing half the county on a daily basis.

I see where you’re coming from and respectfully disagree that there is real damage to the brand. The stock price doesn’t seem to reflect his antics harming the company. My election day Tesla stock purchase is up 71%. He has also opened many people’s eyes to EV’s who otherwise would succumb to their misinformation based fears. I frequent some hunting and shooting forums, Musk’s name is no longer a dirty word and a larger portion of the threads on EV’s and such are more accepting.

 

[21st Century Truck]

I agree you are correct with respect to intentional misinformation and lobbyists, unfortunately it’s working and the fear is reinforced by calls for banning new ICE cars from being sold at some arbitrary date in the future. Basically everyone wants clean air and water, but they also fear what they don’t know. Why would they want to be stripped of their choice of an ICE vehicle that they know and understand when all they think they know is that EV’s are expensive, don’t go that far, don’t work well in cold, will leave them stranded, can be controlled by gov’t to take away their freedoms, etc. It seems like simple physiology, people need to come to the decision that EV’s are for them without being forced by the hand of government. Politicians need to drop the idea of banning new ICE vehicles at some future date and let the market forces dictate the pace of change. Incentivize improving the charging network, standardize the charging network, and incentivize companies to develop better batteries and build them here in the US. The cars and trucks are basically good enough as is, generally far exceeding the performance and capability of ICE

Add in the vilification of Musk (synonymous with EV’s) by the side that supports EV’s because of politics and people who might consider arguably the best entry level EV (Model 3 or Y) are walking away to a worse EV experience with a different brand or just sticking with ICE. I had a conversation with a woman in Provincetown, Ma a couple months ago at a professional networking event. We were talking about solar and EV’s, she said she would like to transition but the Audi EV she wanted was too expensive. I suggested that I really liked my Y and it was far more affordable than the Audi. I even offered to let her take mine for a spin. Her attitude completely changed, she said that she could never support Elon and that he was scum. I suggested she should buy the best car for the money, not the CEO. She ended the conversation.

We’re left with one side’s distaste for EV’s based on fear and the other side shying away from them over contempt of one man’s politics. Yes, we are stupid.

Let's remember that it was "the hand of government" that got lead out of household paint, lead out of gasoline and seat belts into cars, as well as adding smoking warnings to cigarette packs, raising the legal drinking age to 21 and stopping the daily municipal incineration of garbage. None of these huge common health and safety improvements in our society would have been made based just on market forces.

I am writing this to not disqualify Your post but add nuance to the discussion... market forces are fantastic at some things and frankly disastrous at other things.

 

[broncoaz]

Let's remember that it was "the hand of government" that got lead out of household paint, lead out of gasoline and seat belts into cars, as well as adding smoking warnings to cigarette packs, raising the legal drinking age to 21 and stopping the daily municipal incineration of garbage. None of these huge common health and safety improvements in our society would have been made based just on market forces.

I am writing this to not disqualify Your post but add nuance to the discussion... market forces are fantastic at some things and frankly disastrous at other things.

Good points. I think raising the drinking age to 21 was a mistake, but the other things are positives. The difference in eliminating ICE vehicles from the market is that the remaining choices are a significantly different user experience for the consumer. Most people wouldn’t notice a difference in the user experience of unleaded house paint or gasoline. Adding a warning to cigarettes doesn’t prevent someone from using the product either. Seatbelts were federally mandated in 1968, most states didn’t make their use compulsory for 20-30 years later. CA is talking about radically changing the consumer’s vehicle choice in less than 15 years from the original executive order. A dozen or so states follow CA’s laws by statute.

 

[Maineiac12]

Good points. I think raising the drinking age to 21 was a mistake, but the other things are positives. The difference in eliminating ICE vehicles from the market is that the remaining choices are a significantly different user experience for the consumer. Most people wouldn’t notice a difference in the user experience of unleaded house paint or gasoline. Adding a warning to cigarettes doesn’t prevent someone from using the product either. Seatbelts were federally mandated in 1968, most states didn’t make their use compulsory for 20-30 years later. CA is talking about radically changing the consumer’s vehicle choice in less than 15 years from the original executive order. A dozen or so states follow CA’s laws by statute.

I think the government should have mandated hybrid or phev powertrains rather than trying to eliminate ICE entirely. It would have been a better transition IMO.

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