Please help with my home charger install

[RickKeen]

Agree with the suggestion to run 125 amp sub panel. That will give you the ability to expand to two chargers in the garage someday.

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[Maquis]

A quick Google search said 384-15
And I was in error, it's 42 branch circuits (not 40).

I know that on my main breaker panel (42 positions), there is a part of the bussbar that needs to have a notch in order for tandem breakers to be inserted. That notch is present in smaller panels, but not in the large panels.

Section 384 covers strut-type channel raceways and there is no part 15.

ETA….I think that was in the code at one time, but was removed. Perhaps in the 2017 version. You can buy 80 space panels today.

 

[Whammy Bar]

Section 384 covers strut-type channel raceways and there is no part 15.

ETA….I think that was in the code at one time, but was removed. Perhaps in the 2017 version.

 

[bryansocko]

This was found in the 2005 nfpa 70, removed for the 2008 version.

408.35 Number of Overcurrent Devices on One Panelboard
Not more than 42 overcurrent devices (other than those provided for in the mains) of a
lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be installed in any one cabinet or
cutout box.
A lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be provided with physical means
to prevent the installation of more overcurrent devices than that number for which the
panelboard was designed, rated, and approved.
For the purposes of this article, a 2-pole circuit breaker shall be considered two
overcurrent devices; a 3-pole circuit breaker shall be considered three overcurrent
devices.

 

[bryansocko]

Here is homeline 40 space 80 circuit. You can technically use all tandems in this panel.

 

[Steddingbear]

I will be using a licensed electrician but have read / seen on internet many licensed electricians unfamiliar with ev chargers, so hoping for some info here.

I purchased the ChargePoint home flex. Ideally would like to charge as fast as possible hardwired with the charger in my garage, but there is a great distance between my panel and garage, probably about 75 feet….also I might not have the room in my panel for higher amps….

so I’m open to suggestions. Luckily for me I have numerous low cost / free chargers available so rarely charge at home anyway (currently on level 1 outlet), but with tax write off and discount purchase through utility I figured I’d get the home charger, plus maybe I will be able to precondition the vehicle now.

Pics attached.

thanks in advance

I didn’t buy a new truck. I bought a used truck from a dealership so I hunted until I found a brand new Ford charge station that a fellow was willing to sell me for $500. Because they had sent him too. He had had a truck on order they sent him a charger and he canceled the order and bought a truck sitting on a lot somewhere at a Ford dealership. The Ford charger station requires 80 amp wire 100 amp breaker and my panel is on the opposite end of the house. They asked to use copper wire would’ve been ridiculously expensive and I actually did buy a heavier wire that I needed meaning I didn’t need the extra wire. I bought a four wire instead of a three wire with ground, but in order to save the ridiculous price of the copper wire we ran to a disconnect next to the charger in aluminum and then ran from the disconnect into the charger itself in copper as recommended and required by the manufacturer. I hope this information helps a little bit.

 

[Maquis]

This was found in the 2005 nfpa 70, removed for the 2008 version.

408.35 Number of Overcurrent Devices on One Panelboard
Not more than 42 overcurrent devices (other than those provided for in the mains) of a
lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be installed in any one cabinet or
cutout box.
A lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be provided with physical means
to prevent the installation of more overcurrent devices than that number for which the
panelboard was designed, rated, and approved.
For the purposes of this article, a 2-pole circuit breaker shall be considered two
overcurrent devices; a 3-pole circuit breaker shall be considered three overcurrent
devices.

I didn’t realize it happened that long ago. Thanks for the reference.

 

[Heliian]

The Ford charger station requires 80 amp wire 100 amp breaker and my panel is on the opposite end of the house. They asked to use copper wire would’ve been ridiculously expensive and I actually did buy a heavier wire that I needed meaning I didn’t need the extra wire. I bought a four wire instead of a three wire with ground, but in order to save the ridiculous price of the copper wire we ran to a disconnect next to the charger in aluminum and then ran from the disconnect into the charger itself in copper as recommended and required by the manufacturer. I hope this information helps a little bit.

It does not.

The Ford Charge Station Pro is configurable via hardware to install in almost any panel. It can be dialed down to 12a or something like that.

Mine is set to 48a max. I used teck copper to run 50ft. It was the cheapest option for me, no boxes or splices required and the 3 wire was cheaper at the time. Personally, I refuse to use aluminium wire but your budget may vary.

 

[William Munny]

Thanks everyone for your help. I think I may go with an outlet instead of hard wiring b/c I probably don't need the extra power...what type of outlet did you guys use and what wire? I was thinking of buying the thicker wire just in case we change our mind in the future...

 

[Maquis]

Personally, I refuse to use aluminium wire but your budget may vary.

I’d bet money that your entire house is fed by aluminum wire.

 

[Heliian]

I’d bet money that your entire house is fed by aluminum wire.

The main feed was installed underground in 1971, could be al, I've never worried about that part.

 

[Steddingbear]

Thanks everyone for your help. I think I may go with an outlet instead of hard wiring b/c I probably don't need the extra power...what type of outlet did you guys use and what wire? I was thinking of buying the thicker wire just in case we change our mind in the future...

I needed truck to fully charge overnight. I was unable to do that with the 32amp reg charger. And our AEP rates are ridiculous so I only wanted truck to charge after 10:00pm and finish by 8:00 am.

 

[Calson]

I have a 100-amp panel and so I cannot operate the electric cooktop and my hot tub heater and my car charger at the same time. The vehicle is configured to start charging at 11 PM and so not a problem. I don't cook at the same time as I am heating the hot tub so no problem.

I installed a NEMA 6-50 receptacle and used it with an electric wall heater and with a mig welder and now also use it for a iEVSE Level 2 charger. With this approach when the first charger failed I was able to unplug it and then plug in its replacement and no electrician was needed.

 

[bryce]

Sparky here. Have the electrician run 1/0 aluminum ser to the garage. Put in on a 125 amp breaker (this is the largest breaker you can get amperage wise that is a normal size that will fit in that panel) then install a 125 amp mlo panel on the garage. Yank out all the garage circuits from the main pain and place them in the garage panel. Now you will have a few extra spaces in the main panel and have plenty of headroom for growth in the garage panel.

I went with the garage sub panel when we remodeled the garage and installed the charger. I now have powered outlets and lights in the garage, outlets out back near my garden, and a FCSP which I down rated to 60 amp and set up to only charge when I am sleeping. Works like a charm.

 

[chl]

Your electrician should be able to figure the best way to proceed.

To be prepared, you could do a few calculations.

1) Figure out the route the wire to the garage will take - I ran mine in flexible conduit (for easier install) from the laundry-room basement service panel to the garage via the attic. It was the most convenient and shortest route and was 65ft.

You want to keep the voltage drop under 5% in general.

You can figure the voltage drop based on wire size, distance etc. with an on-line calculator like this: https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

For my 240V 80A single phase AC Ford Charge Station Pro, one pair of #3 copper in a PVC conduit, power factor 1 (an EVSE is a pure resistance load, not a reactive load), the calc was:

Voltage drop: 2.60
Voltage drop percentage: 1.08%
Voltage at the end: 237.4

I used a surveyor's tape to measure the distance allowing a foot or two for curve radius etc.


2) figure out what the peak load on your existing panel is.

Your 200A panel should be limited to an 160A and up to a 32,000 Watts (the 80% rule and NEC guideline, probably your local code too) load at any one time, for safety. If you overload it, overheating damage or fire could occur even though your main breaker SHOULD open at some point.

If you had everything on at once with a 200A panel, the load should be limited to 160A and 32,000 Watts.

Generally everything isn't on all at once in most typical residential units, so you need to figure out what your peak load is - when you have the most things "on" simultaneously.

The most accurate way to figure out whether you have a large enough service panel is to do load measurements over a period of time to see what the peak load is, say over a typical day or a week's time.

But usually it is educated guess/estimate to some extent, by adding up the power ratings (in watts) of all appliances and devices that could be running simultaneously without actually measuring the peak load.

One on-line guide I found in a search, which I copied below, said this:

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How to determine the peak load in your home panel

1. Identify all appliances and devices:
Make a list of all electrical devices in your home, including those that
consume a significant amount of power, like your air conditioner, furnace,
electric stove, washer/dryer, and dishwasher.

2. Find the wattage rating:
Look for the wattage rating on the label of each appliance. If the label
shows current draw, multiply that by the operating voltage (120 or 240
volts) to get the power rating in watts.

3. Determine simultaneous use:
Think about which appliances you are likely to be using at the same time
during peak usage periods. For example, you probably won't use the
microwave and hair dryer at the same time.

4. Calculate the total load:
Add up the wattage ratings of the appliances you identified as likely to be
used simultaneously.

5. Account for future additions and peak usage:
Consider potential future additions to your electrical system, such as a hot
tub or home theater, and factor in the possibility of higher usage during
peak hours, such as summer evenings.

6. Consult with an electrician:
If you're unsure about any part of the process or if you need a professional
assessment of your home's electrical needs, it's best to consult with a
qualified electrician.

Additional Tips:

Use a utility bill:
Your utility bill may provide information about your peak demand, which
can be helpful in estimating your overall peak load.

Consider motor loads:
Electric motors, like those in refrigerators and HVAC systems, have unique
starting and running loads.

Account for power factor:
Power factor affects how effectively electrical power is converted into
work output.

Be aware of duty cycle:
Not all appliances run continuously, so consider their duty cycle when
calculating load.

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If you want your electrician to do the load calculation, gathering the info about what is plugged in where would save him/her a lot of time and increase the accuracy.

Putting in a sub-panel in the garage might be the simplest and most cost-effective solution as others have noted above if you need to free up spots in your panel without doubling up circuits on breakers - any doubling up should be according to the breaker specs, some breakers are not designed to be doubled up, and the load on the breaker has to be carefully considered.

I am an electrical engineer but not a licensed electrician.

Disclaimer

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