12 volt warning in cold while plugged in

[Jim Lewis]

Truck Plugged In, Step on Brake Pedal When Pushing Power Button.

One additional thing about this Acessory Mode method for charging the LVB. Last night, it was in the low 20s in San Antonio. When I went to charge the LVB by this method, the truck's HVB battery/coolant temperature in my garage was about 55 degrees F. On pushing the Power button, there was a massive flow of current from the charger that continued until the coolant temperature reached 64 deg F. My interpretation is that starting the truck plugged in while stepping on the brake makes the truck think it's about to be driven somewhere and if its battery temperature is too low, it should precondition the battery. IIRC, the charger current in this version of Accessory Mode was something like 27 A, whereas when the battery is warmer, the charger current draw is more like 1 A, as shown by screenshots in the post I'm referencing here.

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[TaxmanHog]

One additional thing about this Acessory Mode method for charging the LVB. Last night, it was in the low 20s in San Antonio. When I went to charge the LVB by this method, the truck's HVB battery/coolant temperature in my garage was about 55 degrees F. On pushing the Power button, there was a massive flow of current from the charger that continued until the coolant temperature reached 64 deg F. My interpretation is that starting the truck plugged in while stepping on the brake makes the truck think it's about to be driven somewhere and if its battery temperature is too low, it should precondition the battery. IIRC, the charger current in this version of Accessory Mode was something like 27 A, whereas when the battery is warmer, the charger current draw is more like 1 A, as shown by screenshots in the post I'm referencing here.

Traction battery warming is done by the 400vDC PTC, if you put the truck in RUN mode while plugged in that might have started the battery warming phase, under the assumption that being plugged in you might want to charge, was the HVB already at your goal level IIRC you like 50%??

 

[Jim Lewis]

was the HVB already at your goal level IIRC you like 50%??

Yes, it was at my 50% desired SOC limit for limited everyday driving. Sorry I neglected to mention that. IIRC, after observing the large current influx by filtering CarScanner Pro sensor readings with "current," I next switched the filter to "heater". I found most of the charger current influx was accounted for by the coolant heater, and that flow stopped after my battery temperature reached about 64 deg F.

My memory and mind are a bit foggy today. I was out in the middle of the night with my wife's hair dryer. In San Antonio, most houses are built on slab foundations and without exterior faucet shutoffs. So, in extreme deep freezes, which have gone as low as 4 deg F, you have to set outside faucets to drip if you value your plumbing. I didn't set the drip rate fast enough, and three of the four outside hose bibs froze up last night. So far, the worst that's ever happened with similar past oversight is damaging a bib valve or cracking the bib pipe... Not a good idea to set the drip rate at 34 deg and not check it again until the temperature drops to 20 deg!

*** BTW, in an earlier post ( 12 volt warning in cold while plugged in | Page 3 | Ford Lightning Forum For F-150 Lightning EV Pickup: News, Owners, Discussions, Community (f150lightningforum.com), I'd complained that when filtering CarScanner Pro sensor readings, the sensor filter text, e.g., "current," caused the screen keyboard to appear, hogging the screen and limiting the number of sensor readings that could be captured in a single screenshot. Example below:

I found an easy way to make the keyboard go away. Tap on a sensor reading. This brings up a time-dependet graph of that particular sensor reading. Then in the top left of the screen, tap BACK. CarScanner Pro will return to a full screen of sensor readings limited by the filter and the phone keyboard display will be gone.

 

[Jim Lewis]

One additional thing about this Acessory Mode method for charging the LVB. Last night, it was in the low 20s in San Antonio. When I went to charge the LVB by this method, the truck's HVB battery/coolant temperature in my garage was about 55 degrees F. On pushing the Power button, there was a massive flow of current from the charger that continued until the coolant temperature reached 64 deg F.

NOTE: For those in the thread Did Ford Change My Usuable Battery Capacity?, by warming my battery from 13 deg C to 19 deg C in 23 minutes, my usable battery capacity at 50% SOC changed from 55.97 kWh to 57.91 kWh.

Screenshots illustrate the power flow to the coolant heater when plugged in, turning on the vehicle while stepping on the brake pedal, all perimeter lights and headlights, and accessories off, e.g., fan, heater, etc.

My garage was 51 deg F, about 11 deg C (outside temp 25 deg F). Screen captures from CarScanner Pro using an OBDLink CX and Capstone's CarScanner template (https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...e-charging-battery-and-range-telemetry.11602/). I had previously imported Ford PIDs into CarScanner Pro using the OBDLinke MX+ OBDII device. Don't know if that makes a difference in what I can see when using the OBDLink CX device and the All Sensors page that then shows up in CarScanner Pro...

CarScanner Pro truck status before turning on power:
NB: There are more sensor temperatures than shown on one screen.

Current and Power Flow to Heater After Turning On Truck As Above.

Truck Status After Running 23' In Described Accessory Mode.
Shows battery has been warmed and coolant heater has shutoff.
NB: There are more sensor temperatures than can fit on 1 screen.

 

[GDN]

Similar situation as OP @PV2EV, but I had not been plugged in and charging. I went out to the truck this morning (it's cold here in Dallas), just to see what my SOC and power percentage looked like. This morning at 8:30 the truck showed 29 degrees (in the garage) 78% SOC, 183 miles range, 100% power available. The truck wasn't driven today.

Tonight, I get messages on FordPass from 7 hours earlier, 1:26 PM, that I need to plug in to maintain the 12v battery and there is an electrical system drain.

Doing some checks when I get the messages - the app is stuck from its last update 7 hours ago and it shows 77% SOC and 181 miles. I logged onto ford.com and the LVB SOC shows 43% and the truck has 181 miles range.

It took me 5 minutes trying to send commands to the truck to get it to wake up (it's 35' from me in the garage). Once it did it still shows 77% SOC and 181 miles. I go back to Ford.com and my LVB SOC has updated and is now 75%.

So bottom line is the truck did the right thing and took care of itself and initiated a 12v LVB batter charge, but why send me messages, and why deliver them 7 hours after they were created.

Ford - just do the right thing. Protect the batteries, initiate a LVB charge cycle when it is needed.. Quit making this hard, quit worrying people, no need to send a message and deliver it hours after the fact.

There is a Tesla sitting right beside of it that does all of this 100% perfectly, on its own, in the background, without worrying anyone.

I watch the HVB SOC and charge both when appropriately for my driving needs.

 

[MAG]

All this talk about about how to keep LVB charged is ridicoulous,we shouldn’t even have to think about this,Ford needs to keep up.Let’s face it,shouldn’t have put in battery tenders on a very expensive vehicle full of batteries! Most people just want to get in their vehicles and drive,if manufacturers want to sell EV’s they have to make them work without all the extra crap,there are a lot of folks out there that might like an EV for the green thing but don‘t want all the tech stuff that goes with them.Don’t get me wrong,I love my truck but I don’t want to babysit it.
Just my opinion…

 

[Maxx]

NOTE: For those in the thread Did Ford Change My Usuable Battery Capacity?, by warming my battery from 13 deg C to 19 deg C in 23 minutes, my usable battery capacity at 50% SOC changed from 55.97 kWh to 57.91 kWh.

Screenshots illustrate the power flow to the coolant heater when plugged in, turning on the vehicle while stepping on the brake pedal, all perimeter lights and headlights, and accessories off, e.g., fan, heater, etc.

My garage was 51 deg F, about 11 deg C (outside temp 25 deg F). Screen captures from CarScanner Pro using an OBDLink CX and Capstone's CarScanner template (https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...e-charging-battery-and-range-telemetry.11602/). I had previously imported Ford PIDs into CarScanner Pro using the OBDLinke MX+ OBDII device. Don't know if that makes a difference in what I can see when using the OBDLink CX device and the All Sensors page that then shows up in CarScanner Pro...

CarScanner Pro truck status before turning on power:
NB: There are more sensor temperatures than shown on one screen.

Current and Power Flow to Heater After Turning On Truck As Above.

Truck Status After Running 23' In Described Accessory Mode.
Shows battery has been warmed and coolant heater has shutoff.
NB: There are more sensor temperatures than can fit on 1 screen.

Do you know how much damage (current) scanner does to 12V battery if you keep it connected to OBDIi (with app disconnected)?

I saw my consumption went up from 23 mA to 28mA turning on the connectivity on the truck but I have had numbers from mid 30s to near 50 messing with the scanner. Have you ever left it connected for extended period and compare your 12V quiescent with when it is disconnected?

 

[Jim Lewis]

Do you know how much damage (current) scanner does to 12V battery if you keep it connected to OBDIi (with app disconnected)?

I'm using an OBDLink CX, which @$80 is considerably more expensive than many popular OBDII readers such as VeePeak. OBDLink® CX - Bluetooth 5.1 BLE OBD2 Adapter For BimmerCode.

From the OBDLink CX specifications tab:

Operating Voltage	12V automotive systems (8–18V operating range)
Overvoltage Protection	Up to 100V
Operating Current	55 mA
BatterySaver™ Low Power Mode	<1 mA

vs. VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+, which I also own ( OBDCheck BLE+ – Veepeak):
Bluetooth version: dual mode 4.0 (Classic + LE)

Supported devices: iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (phones, tablets). (May not work with some Android head units)

Operating voltage: 9V~16V

Operating/standby current: up to 35mA/15mA

I need a BT LE scanner to use ABRP and have the app factor in car data into routing and charger stops, and ABRP recommended OBDLink CX as a top choice. See the following Iternio web page (the Swedish company now owned by Rivian that puts out ABRP).

OBD Connection | Iternio

OBDLink claims the CX device is "hackerproof." We'll see, but that's another reason I plunked down my $80.

BTW, our local San Antonio newspaper had the following report today (bold emphasis mine):

While the number of homicides and assaults dropped across San Antonio in 2023, auto thefts skyrocketed — which Police Chief William McManus blames on viral social-media posts that walked viewers through the ins and outs of stealing cars.

Car thefts surged 53%, with 19,225 reported last year, compared with the 12,551 in 2022.

Kia and Hyundai models made up 40% of all cars reported stolen in 2023, according to San Antonio Police Department data. Videos showing how to steal these models with just a screwdriver and a USB cable took TikTok and other social-media platforms by storm last year.

Ford, Chevrolet and RAM pickups accounted for another 15% of stolen vehicles.

“Many of those vehicles are not stolen for joy rides,” McManus said. “Most are stolen to commit other crimes.”

The population of San Antonio is 1.43 million. The population, including the metro area, is 2.4 million.

 

[Maxx]

I'm using an OBDLink CX, which @$80 is considerably more expensive than many popular OBDII readers such as VeePeak. OBDLink® CX - Bluetooth 5.1 BLE OBD2 Adapter For BimmerCode.

From the OBDLink CX specifications tab:

Operating Voltage	12V automotive systems (8–18V operating range)
Overvoltage Protection	Up to 100V
Operating Current	55 mA
BatterySaver™ Low Power Mode	<1 mA

vs. VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+, which I also own ( OBDCheck BLE+ – Veepeak):
Bluetooth version: dual mode 4.0 (Classic + LE)

Supported devices: iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (phones, tablets). (May not work with some Android head units)

Operating voltage: 9V~16V

Operating/standby current: up to 35mA/15mA

I need a BT LE scanner to use ABRP and have the app factor in car data into routing and charger stops, and ABRP recommended OBDLink CX as a top choice. See the following Iternio web page (the Swedish company now owned by Rivian that puts out ABRP).

OBD Connection | Iternio

OBDLink claims the CX device is "hackerproof." We'll see, but that's another reason I plunked down my $80.

BTW, our local San Antonio newspaper had the following report today (bold emphasis mine):



The population of San Antonio is 1.43 million. The population, including the metro area, is 2.4 million.

Thanks a bunch. This is very helpful. I have the VeePeak. 15mA sounds right and it is a lot when not in use. My battery consumption jumped from 20s mA to 40s mA when I had it on but I was not sure what other variables may have been involved.


Your unit does look good but I mostly use it to learn how truck works. When I feel like me and the truck have a good understanding and relationship is solid, my usage may drop.

The car theft is getting ridiculous. I may have to start using Faraday cages and bags.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Maybe my math is off, but a drain of 15 mA is not that much compared to the 35 Ah capacity of the LVB, at least for 24 hours. It can't account for much of the overnight drain of the LVB.

An idle current of 15 mA is 0.015 Ah in an hour. In 24 hours, it's 0.015 x 24 = 0.36 Ah. 0.36 Ah/24 hrs divided by 35 Ah capacity is 1.0% drain per 24 hours or a 7% drain per week of sitting. So, yes, if you let your truck sit a lot, it could be a factor that helps knock the LVB down below the 80% SOC required for some updates but if one drives one's truck a couple of times a week, I don't think it's going to be as much of a problem as all the other parasitic stuff (Wi-Fi, BT, the cellular Internet connection, the security system) that's constantly draining the LVB. For me, the claim of less than 1 mA drain on idle for the OBDLink CX was just a bonus that made me feel better about handing over 80 smackeroos.

 

[Maxx]

Maybe my math is off, but a drain of 15 mA is not that much compared to the 35 Ah capacity of the LVB, at least for 24 hours. It can't account for much of the overnight drain of the LVB.

An idle current of 15 mA is 0.015 Ah in an hour. In 24 hours, it's 0.015 x 24 = 0.36 Ah. 0.36 Ah/24 hrs divided by 35 Ah capacity is 1.0% drain per 24 hours or a 7% drain per week of sitting. So, yes, if you let your truck sit a lot, it could be a factor that helps knock the LVB down below the 80% SOC required for some updates but if one drives one's truck a couple of times a week, I don't think it's going to be as much of a problem as all the other parasitic stuff (Wi-Fi, BT, the cellular Internet connection, the security system) that's constantly draining the LVB. For me, the claim of less than 1 mA drain on idle for the OBDLink CX was just a bonus that made me feel better about handing over 80 smackeroos.

Your math seem to be sound but I have not made is over 80% lately. Closer to 50% and 60% most of the time. And although my quiescent avg has been between 23 mA - 45 mA my daily SOC loss has been between 10% to 30%. I am not sure if my understanding of "quiescent avg" is incorrect, my battery has lost capacity or what else is going on. Even 45 mA x 24 should not exceed 3%. So I am missing something here (may be my marbles).

 

[Jim Lewis]

my daily SOC loss has been between 10% to 30%.

Overnight, I may only lose 3 or 4% LVB capacity or rarely close to 30%. I don't think you're losing your marbles. @RickLightning pointed out in another post that your fob or your PAAK can wake the truck up if they're nearby, as will refreshing FordPass, all of which will increase the parasitic drain of the LVB. I've wondered if day-to-day variability in how much my truck talks to Ford's servers can account for some of the LVB discharge variability. I never saw the Sync recall update reported in FordPass or on my Sync screen, yet when I visited the dealer last Thursday, they told me my Sync module was up-to-date, and the recall notice has since been removed from my Ford account dashboard. If the Sync recall update were just silently slipped to my truck, that would have been a BIG LVB discharge.

 

[Maxx]

Overnight, I may only lose 3 or 4% LVB capacity or rarely close to 30%. I don't think you're losing your marbles. @RickLightning pointed out in another post that your fob or your PAAK can wake the truck up if they're nearby, as will refreshing FordPass, all of which will increase the parasitic drain of the LVB. I've wondered if day-to-day variability in how much my truck talks to Ford's servers can account for some of the LVB discharge variability. I never saw the Sync recall update reported in FordPass or on my Sync screen, yet when I visited the dealer last Thursday, they told me my Sync module was up-to-date, and the recall notice has since been removed from my Ford account dashboard. If the Sync recall update were just silently slipped to my truck, that would have been a BIG LVB discharge.

Great points. I am experimenting with different things. Turning off connectivity shaved off a little. I just made my home made faraday cage and put the fob in there see how much of an impact that will have. I didn't use much of FordPass during some of those higher numbers. I will be a happy camper if I can get it down to 3%-4%.

 

[Jim Lewis]

METHOD #1

Truck Plugged In, Just Press Power Button.
Notice both the battery icon and the charger icon on the lower right dash(pic #1), and the higher applied LVB battery voltage(pic #2) compared to the previous scheme above.

METHOD #2

Truck Plugged In, Step on Brake Pedal When Pushing Power Button.
Notice only the charger icon on the lower right dash(pic #1) compared to the previous two Accessory Mode schemes. Applied LVB voltage is ~same for scheme #2 just above and higher than when the truck is not plugged in (scheme #1).

Both Method #1 and Method #2 of entering Accessory Mode will charge the LVB when the truck is plugged into my FCSP. In Method #2, since I stepped on the brake pedal in addition to pushing the Power button, the truck thinks it's going to go somewhere, and if the battery is cold, warms it. In Method #2, where I don't step on the brake pedal, the truck apparently thinks that it's not going anywhere and that I just want to run accessories (which I've turned off as much as possible), so it just charges the LVB. Would be great if someone could explain why the dash battery icon shows in Method #1 vs. does not show in Method #2. Other than the worry that the battery icon means needless LVB wear in Method #1, Method #1 seems the way to go for causing less needless coolant heater and coolant pump wear when I'm not going to drive anywhere. I'm just topping up my LVB a bit.

Another advantage of Method #1 over Method #2 for charging the LVB seems to be that in Method #2, the truck does think it's "ON" and the Power Down timer runs if you don't turn it off, so the truck will shut down and the LVB will stop charging in 30 minutes. In Method #1, the truck doesn't think it's turned on, the Power Down timer doesn't kick in, and the truck still keeps charging past the usual 30-minute automatic shutdown time.

 

[PV2EV]

Assuming the 23B70 TSB for the LVB Sensor fixes this charging issue, is there a test I should ask the dealer to do to prove that the LVB is fully functional and not in need of replacement as well?

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