95% of used Lightnings have branded titles, what are the main reasons they were returned under lemon laws?

[ivremore]

I was a day 2 reservation holder but never exercised it after the big price hikes. I am back looking at them used now and see that of over 5600 for sale in cars.com, only about 250 have a clean title. What are the reasons for these staggering rates of lemon returns? Parts availability or genuine quality issues? Should I be worried when looking at one of the few vehicles with a clean title?

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[Maquis]

We can’t know the situation of any one vehicle, but anecdotally, there have been several posts on here about trucks sitting at the dealer over 30 days waiting on parts that were lemoned.
The dealer should be willing to share the history. You could also negotiate for a FordProtect extended warranty.

 

[Mike G]

My .2 is that many new owners ran into software issues that their dealers didn't understand or didn't want to deal with. Also I suspect some owners took advantage of situations, and/or possibly contrived situations to bail out of Lightning ownership and go back to an ICE truck after the 'honeymoon' period and the 'shiny' wore off.

My Lightning has so far been the best F-150 I've owned out of the six previous (includes two Raptors as well).

 

[brewski]

Are the lemon returns a staggering rate?
A buddy who is in the biz told me recently that (this was specifically a different car brand)...people are just turning their cars in as they can't afford the payments...just turning them in.
They are turning them in fast enough that it is killing the secondary (used car) market.
This brand is actually telling folks "hey, just skip this months payment and see how things are next month" so they can slow the flow of cars being turned in.
I don't know if that is part of why there are so many used Lightnings, but it may be a factor.

 

[bmwhitetx]

You can type “lemon” in the search box and will see the many ways the lemon law was used. In some cases folks turned around and bought another one.

 

[Heliian]

5600 for sale in cars.com, only about 250 have a clean title.

That's the ones that the poster has selected for a title.

New ones don't show any title info and used ones that the poster didn't specifically select a title show nothing also.

Your search results don't mean that 5400 don't have a clean title.

 

[srvethelord]

I bought a '22 Platinum with a "lemon" title. I love this car, and I've never been a Ford fan! It was lemoned due to Bluecruise issues. The dealer I purchased it from provided the Carfax which detailed the cause of the lemon title. It's been a great car and 100% glad I purchased it. Zero buyer's remorse.

 

[ivremore]

Are the lemon returns a staggering rate?
A buddy who is in the biz told me recently that (this was specifically a different car brand)...people are just turning their cars in as they can't afford the payments...just turning them in.
They are turning them in fast enough that it is killing the secondary (used car) market.
This brand is actually telling folks "hey, just skip this months payment and see how things are next month" so they can slow the flow of cars being turned in.
I don't know if that is part of why there are so many used Lightnings, but it may be a factor.

Having 95% of the used vehicles have branded titles is unsual. To put this in perspective, the Rivian R1T, around 50% have branded titles, BMW iX 85% are branded, Audi etron only 5%. So while the BMW comes close, the Lightning does take the crown. That said, I test drove an XLT yesterday and still very much like it but I want to research what’s behind the large brand numbers.

 

[ivremore]

That's the ones that the poster has selected for a title.

New ones don't show any title info and used ones that the poster didn't specifically select a title show nothing also.

Your search results don't mean that 5400 don't have a clean title.

Hmm, filtering by “clean title” removes new vehicles… that would skew results quite a bit yes

 

[Newton]

And only 212 out of the 5000 used ones are single owner. I think something is wrong with your interpretation, and would also note that branded title usually means "accident", not "lemon".

 

[TaxmanHog]

What are the reasons for these staggering rates of lemon returns? Parts availability or genuine quality issues? Should I be worried when looking at one of the few vehicles with a clean title?

Many early adopters with trucks that had issues were not willing (understandably) to wait for the manufacturer to supply repair parts to dealers who have a wide level of issues [staffing and/or competence] in executing a repair promptly.

I'd suspect most of those now repaired trucks are good to go, barring a second/third module problem popping up after the resale is complete.

 

[ivremore]

And only 212 out of the 5000 used ones are single owner. I think something is wrong with your interpretation, and would also note that branded title usually means "accident", not "lemon".

yep, I was wrong, not realizing filtering for clean title would also remove all new vehicles. I’m glad I asked though, now I know the situation isn’t as dire as I initially thought.

 

[djwildstar]

I am back looking at them used now and see that of over 5600 for sale in cars.com, only about 250 have a clean title. What are the reasons for these staggering rates of lemon returns?

Looking nationwide ("all distance from ...") for F-150 Lightnings on cars.com, I currently see 299 used vehicles and 5,345 new vehicles. Obviously, new vehicles cannot be lemon-law returns. That leaves the 299 used vehicles. Of these, I see that 253 have a "clean" title, leaving 26 lemon-law returns (about 8.7%).

This is generally comparable to lemon-law return rates for pickups overall, so honestly not bad. On cars.com, I see 38,125 used F-150's. Of these, 35,160 have a "clean" title, resulting in 2,965 lemon-law returns, or about 7.8%. Quick searches suggest that Silverados have a ~6.0% lemon-law rate, Tacomas a ~9.1% rate, Ram 1500s a ~7.4% rate. So right in the ballpark.

 

[AI_Speed]

yep, I was wrong, not realizing filtering for clean title would also remove all new vehicles. I’m glad I asked though, now I know the situation isn’t as dire as I initially thought.

Not as dire but certainly a trend to consider when buying used - and a way to negotiate a radical deep discount - issues for me in BlueCruise failures/safety factors - taking it in once more for a fix - though planning to lemon law it in Washington State.

 

[ALyn]

I brought a branded 2022 lightning (Platinum) in February. It had about 4200 miles, and I paid 30k less than sticker. First owner returned it because the light on the tailgate wasn't working and parts weren't readily available. Car was a courtesy buy back at 300 miles and the owner of the dealership drove it for less than a year. I brought it from the dealership and it was in great shape (though I had to figure out the updates as the dealer was clueless why I wasn't getting them and they couldn't get them to work). Called Ford and they walked me through the reset and update prep process (turning off the headlights, etc) and I haven't had any issues since. Dealer manager felt the "few" courtesy buy backs Ford was doing was due to unavailable parts, customers and dealers who couldn't figure out how to use certain functions and assumed there was a fault, as well as range anxiety.

I had a Tesla Model S and was very comfortable with EVs. I have joy in my lightning and have no regrets. Well one, my wife has stopped driving her Audi A7 and snatches my lightning any chance she gets! Love it!

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