able to charge Tesla with ford charger

[ijustice]

I own both a Tesla and a lightning. I have the ford pro charger installed and had not been able to charge the Tesla until I got this adapter. It says that it can be used to DC fast charge and level two charging at home. So I plugged it into both the Tesla and ford charger, a few clicks later, it started to charge the Tesla. I have the charger set up to charge at 100amps but the Tesla toned it down to charge at 48amps, I didn't have to do anything. Ended up charging at a rate of 10-11/hr (I forget the units.) and didn't burn down the house. I was so happy because I was originally looking into installing a second charger (I don't have much room for that in the panel.). Hope this helps others.

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[RickLightning]

Yes, the vehicle will request a specific charge rate, and the charger won't exceed that.

FYI, you're charging the truck at 80amps, on a 100amp circuit, not at 100amps.

 

[carys98]

For that to work the DC pins and the AC pins on the CCS side are connected directly together. That means when you use it you are feeding 240V AC back into the DC input on the Ford Charge Station. It didn’t seem to cause you any problems, probably because it is most likely just terminating in an open relay. As long as you don’t have the home integration system you probably won’t have any problems but you should be aware of what is happening. Also, these adapters can be dangerous if you plug in a standard J1772 adapter and open that door over the CCS pins you can easily access a live 240V pin.

 

[marc_hanna]

The two lower pins are DC only. No AC power flows through them. I think someone one the forum here has posted the standards.

 

[carys98]

The two lower pins are DC only. No AC power flows through them. I think someone one the forum here has posted the standards.

I’m familiar with the standards. There is only one set of pins on the Tesla connector so these adapters connect them together on the CCS side. It’s a really bad idea and it definitely does not comply with any of the standards.

 

[marc_hanna]

I’m familiar with the standards. There is only one set of pins on the Tesla connector so these adapters connect them together on the CCS side. It’s a really bad idea and it definitely does not comply with any of the standards.

I see what you’re saying, but even if the AC terminals are hot, there’s no circumstance where they are exposed. When the handshake is made for a DC charge, the on-board AC charger will not initiate and therefore no current draw on the AC circuit - it’s just a “capped off” dead end. Same holds true for an AC charge, unless you are using the wrong adapter that doesn’t cover the DC terminals.
The adapter in the pic looks as though it has a spring-loaded DC port cover which would require someone to intentionally use it wrong. There’s only so much you can do to protect people. There’s nothing stopping me from unplugging my dryer and sticking a fork in the receptacle.

 

[ijustice]

The dc pins are covered by a spring loaded flap. I do not have the house to be powered by the truck set up. Thanks for all the replies, I just wanted to get feedback and make sure the way I’m using this adapter was safe.

 

[chl]

I see what you’re saying, but even if the AC terminals are hot, there’s no circumstance where they are exposed. When the handshake is made for a DC charge, the on-board AC charger will not initiate and therefore no current draw on the AC circuit - it’s just a “capped off” dead end. Same holds true for an AC charge, unless you are using the wrong adapter that doesn’t cover the DC terminals.
The adapter in the pic looks as though it has a spring-loaded DC port cover which would require someone to intentionally use it wrong. There’s only so much you can do to protect people. There’s nothing stopping me from unplugging my dryer and sticking a fork in the receptacle.

Yes.
I assume the Tesla CAN charge at level 2 and would detect what kind of voltage is being provided to it, AC (L2) or DC (L3), and act appropriately.

I cannot imagine that the DC pins on the Tesla battery are connected to the receptacle power pins when charging at L2! That would put AC juice into the DC battery! No way that would happen.

So, I assume there is a relay that switches the connection between AC and DC are needed.

I think I once saw a schematic of the Tesla on board charging circuitry that showed such a relay.

So the Tesla detects the kind of voltage, AC or DC, and then connects the EVSE to the appropriate circuit, a converter (AC to DC) if it is being provided with AC and to whatever circuitry is needed to control a DC current if the source EVSE is supplying DC (DC to DC converter maybe).

"To charge on AC, using a SAE J1772 plug, there is a need to use an adapter - Tesla provides those, and according to Ingineerix, it's just a mechanical adapter, as the Tesla charging inlet is functionally compatible with the SAE J1772."

The key difference is that on Tesla’s plug, the pins within the plug for AC and DC are shared depending on the flavor of the electrical supply; if AC is being used, those two pins are AC, but if DC is being used, those pins are DC.

From the Tesla NACS standard doc:

With shared pins, the system must be designed to avoid connecting
the battery pack to an AC electrical grid, which may result in high
severity failures of grid and battery components.

The following are examples of functional safety requirements used
to meet the safety goal (avoid connecting the battery pack to an AC
electrical grid) with the system from Figure 1:
1. The fast charge contactors shall be inhibited from closing if
the fast charge link is not connected to a DC EVSE.
2. The fast charge contactors shall be inhibited from closing
if there is AC voltage greater than 30Vrms within 40Hz to
70Hz detected on the fast charge link.
3. The fast charge contactors shall be inhibited from closing if
the vehicle detects an AC EVSE is connected.
4. Charge cable connection must be disallowed (via latch
engagement and disallowing door opening) if the fast
charge link is energized with high voltage DC.
5. If the system detects that the charge cable may be
connected while the fast charge link is energized with high
voltage DC when cable connection is not allowed, it shall
disconnect the battery pack from the fast charge link within
one second.
6. If either fast charge contactor is detected as closed, the
system shall disallow requesting voltage from an AC EVSE.

Mechanisms that can be used for meeting ASIL-D requirements using
ASIL decomposition:
• Redundant detection mechanisms for features such as fast
charge contactor closed state, AC present on fast charge
link, etc.
• Requiring consensus among multiple independent
components to make decisions such as fast charge contactor
actuation.

Tesla’s implementation has the AC input of the on-board charger
directly connected to the fast charge link. With this implementation,
DC high voltage will be applied to the AC input of the on-board
charger whenever DC fast charging is active. The on-board charger
must be designed to withstand this DC voltage and must not
attempt to convert power when DC fast charging is active to avoid
damage to the on-board charger power converters. The maximum
DC voltage that the on-board charger must withstand can be
derived as the greater of maximum pack voltage and maximum
voltage seen during the DC charging external isolation check

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tes...-Charging-Standard-AC-DC-Pin-Sharing-Appendix

----
The on-board AC to DC converter is connected during both AC and DC charging.
When the converter receives DC at its input nothing is converted, the input DC is passed through by the fast charge and battery contactors (see the block diagram).

When AC is detected, the fast charge contactors are OPEN and the converter functions to produce DC voltage and that is passed through the battery contactors to the battery (see the block diagram).

At no time is the battery directly connected to the input pins during AC charging because the fast charging contactors are OPEN.

If not, a disaster would occur permanently damaging the vehicle and possible burning down the EVSE house!

 

[chl]

For that to work the DC pins and the AC pins on the CCS side are connected directly together. That means when you use it you are feeding 240V AC back into the DC input on the Ford Charge Station. It didn’t seem to cause you any problems, probably because it is most likely just terminating in an open relay. As long as you don’t have the home integration system you probably won’t have any problems but you should be aware of what is happening. Also, these adapters can be dangerous if you plug in a standard J1772 adapter and open that door over the CCS pins you can easily access a live 240V pin.

The flap on the adapter should prevent that.

Also if AC is on the DC EV input lines to the FCSP (because the flap is open), the lines for using the EV battery as a backup, looking at the schematic, I see they are routed to an inverter to change the DC to AC if the home integration is implemented.

If the inverter receives AC voltage, I think that nothing bad should happen.

For one, generally, inverters have AC filtering to remove fluctuations in the DC voltage, and the AC would likely be filtered.

For another, the inverter would output AC, if it functioned at all, with an AC input - it might have circuitry to shut off the output in such a case, like the Tesla contactor system can detect whether the input is AC or DC and open contacts appropriately.

And finally, the home integration output from the inverter is not supplied to the home main service panel unless there is an outage detected and DC input from the EV is detected along with control signals from the Lightning and the APP, to connect the inverter output (via the AC disconnect) to the house main service panel.

 

[chl]

So, next year (or whenever) when Ford switches to putting NACS ports on the Lightnings, what will happen to the FCSP? Will it be fitted with an adapter? Will it be redesigned for the NACS port? And how will home integration be implemented, via the NACS port? I wonder.

I suppose we could retrofit it with a J1772 cable and adapter, or a NACS cable, and abandon home integration via the DC pins.

Will Tesla have a bidirectional EVSE system (Powershare for Cybertruck) we can use with an old Lightning?

"...While the two-way charging capabilities of early NACS adopters are still up in the air, a bill in the California legislature, SB 233, is aiming to require bidirectional charging capability for all EVs sold beginning in 2027 and after. State Senator Nancy Skinner cited the potential of EV batteries as mobile energy storage units, serving as backup power to households during blackouts. California is used to rolling blackouts during peak demand periods, particularly during the months of August and September when heatwaves are common. The bill also seeks to increase funding for bidirectional infrastructure and promote interoperability testing to facilitate widespread adoption. "

https://ev-lectron.com/blogs/blog/does-nacs-support-bidirectional-charging

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