Battery conditioning, is it worth it?

[neeonline]

Doesnt work that way. Remember its Miles PER Kwh (in your words "spent"). Not KWH spent per Mile.

So you are not spending 2 normally. You are Spending 1 kwh and getting 2 miles, so over 25 miles you are spending 12.5 kwh. When not preconditioning you are spending 1 kwh and getting 1.4, so over 25 miles you are spending 17.8.

Thanks. So preconditioning a Lightning is a waste of money. Good to know. Will start to pre-heat the cabin instead.

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[luebri]

Thanks. So preconditioning a Lightning is a waste of money. Good to know. Will start to pre-heat the cabin instead.

If you are confident your spend is truly 8kwh then yes in your scenario it does not make sense. Unless the automatic schedule of the cabin being warm is worth it. (For me it is, because my electricity is extremely cheap at that time)

Also you could reduce your 8kwh Precondition "spend" if you time your charging to be immediately prior to our precondition time.

See attached example. My charging started at 3 am to 4am (paused for an hour based on my schedule) and then started again at 5am finishing at ~6:10. Since my battery was warm from the charging my precondition "spend" was only 3.2 at max (Since this graph show whole home use) between 6:30 and 7 (7am Departure). Probably more like 2.0 to 2.5 if you back out typical house usage at that time.

 

[TaxmanHog]

My "commute" is a about 5 miles to the office so I am doubting the efficiency gained from a conditioned battery is greater than the electricity consumed to do that conditioning, at least for a 5 mile drive. Today I average 1.7m/kwh on the trip. I doubt that would be much worse on a cold battery.

My retired life weekly driving is about the same as your commuting, so once a week charging is my most efficient method, assuming you're not in need of 100% motor energy at your fingertips, this should be good for you.

While remaining unplugged the entire week and remote climate start, cabin is warmed and least amount of shore energy is used, I'll have to pay that back at the end of the week.

If you stay plugged in overnight, then use remote climate start instead of departure timer to suppress excessive battery warming, only in the worst of cold conditions then BMS will draw 1.5 to 2.5 kWh of energy to keep the pack at 100% output, that modest amount might not last the full day.

For folks with longer commutes and colder conditions, the early morning charge might be good enough.

For really long journeys in extreme conditions, I will stack up all the options, charge to 95%, departure timer with cabin prep scheduled for 10 minutes ahead of actual roll out time, the trucks BMS will decide if/when to prepare the battery, could be 30 to 90 minutes prior to roll out.

 

[Firn]

As long as it's plugged in the truck will keep the battery within it's comfort zone. No need to precondition for battery health.

@TaxmanHog will have to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he only observed battery heating to maintain temp if you had it set for departure times. Without those the battery was just allowed to get cold.

 

[TaxmanHog]

@TaxmanHog will have to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he only observed battery heating to maintain temp if you had it set for departure times. Without those the battery was just allowed to get cold.

I've observed (documented in another thread

Intentional cold soak -15 ) that the BMS will spontaneously call for energy without any departure time being set, the truck needs to be plugged into the EVSE that's allowing energy to be available.

 

[Phineas Magliozzi]

Thanks. So preconditioning a Lightning is a waste of money. Good to know. Will start to pre-heat the cabin instead.

For me there is only one use-case for preconditioning, and that is when I know that I'll need all the range I can get, which is rare. Otherwise just the occasional cabin heating before leaving, here in the land of absurdly high electrical rates and relatively mild temperatures.

 

[potato]

@TaxmanHog will have to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he only observed battery heating to maintain temp if you had it set for departure times. Without those the battery was just allowed to get cold.

Just to further confuse the issue. Mine does what you say and doesn't appear to work like taxman's. I have not yet seen a battery temperature above freezing when I get in the truck. If it's -12 C outside, battery temp is -8 ish. I assume the few degrees difference is leftover heat from charging, which is 11 p.m. - 2 or 3 a.m. usually.

We have some mid -20s coming up over the next few days so maybe I'll see some warming then. But with the "regular" winter cold here I have not seen any evidence of spontaneous warming. Unfortunately I don't have a fancy energy monitoring system to tell me though; I only have the battery temperature via CarScanner (and the instrument cluster, which always shows the temperature on the cold side when it's been cold soaked, even after driving).

More on topic, I agree battery conditioning (departure time) isn't worth it unless I'm embarking on a road trip and need all the range. The seat and steering wheel heat kick in almost immediately so even cabin preheating is no big deal, really.

 

[Ragman]

If you live where it's cold (32F/0C is not cold...) plugging in and preconditioning are needed. I have seen a "Red" battery once at -35 unplugged, I don't recommend this.

If you drive more then 50% of your battery in one shot, preconditioning is needed.

Just simply plugging in at -35 keeps the battery in the "Blue" safe zone, I set our trucks to "departure" time every 12 hours regardless of use. While it may not be energy efficiency, there is a lot of plastic and connectors I figure a "warmish" pack will keep rest of the truck that little bit less brittle...

 

[VTbuckeye]

I used to set my charge window for 9PM to 1PM per my utility EV charging window. Typical usage is 12 to 25 miles daily and when really cold this means 7 to 15kWh added. It would charge from 9 to 11 adding using 14kWh and then around 530 pull another 2ish kWh to warm the battery....only to give that energy away again as the battery cooled. Our Volvo does not seem to do this, but warms the battery at the start of the charge cycle, then starts adding power to the battery (display will show miles added and amp draw). I now charge the Volvo starting at 9PM and the lightning at 330AM. The battery warms some from charging and wastes less energy. In the summer I'll probably go back to 9pm charging.

 

[TMND]

If you live where it's cold (32F/0C is not cold...) plugging in and preconditioning are needed. I have seen a "Red" battery once at -35 unplugged, I don't recommend this.

If you drive more then 50% of your battery in one shot, preconditioning is needed.

Just simply plugging in at -35 keeps the battery in the "Blue" safe zone, I set our trucks to "departure" time every 12 hours regardless of use. While it may not be energy efficiency, there is a lot of plastic and connectors I figure a "warmish" pack will keep rest of the truck that little bit less brittle...

There’s so much conflicting information being tossed around on this forum. I’ve raised these concerns before and many many people have told me these batteries can take care of themselves and that’s that. Preconditioning is to get the full range out of your battery. Nothing to do with the health of the pack.
The intermittent heating taxman has brought up, seems to be something Ford has programmed in for one reason or another. But as far as the battery pack goes, I’ve been assured cold soaking is perfectly fine which I’m betting on since I don’t charge at home and I regularly see -25 Fahrenheit. So what is it really?? @Ford I would like to know the facts from the horse’s mouth, no offense to you experts out there

 

[scruvs]

For me there is only one use-case for preconditioning, and that is when I know that I'll need all the range I can get, which is rare. Otherwise just the occasional cabin heating before leaving, here in the land of absurdly high electrical rates and relatively mild temperatures.

This motivated me to turn off Departure Times. Most of the time, I oversleep or decide to work from home anyway. I’ll stick with the occasional, manual cabin temp.

 

[Firn]

There’s so much conflicting information being tossed around on this forum. I’ve raised these concerns before and many many people have told me these batteries can take care of themselves and that’s that. Preconditioning is to get the full range out of your battery. Nothing to do with the health of the pack.
The intermittent heating taxman has brought up, seems to be something Ford has programmed in for one reason or another. But as far as the battery pack goes, I’ve been assured cold soaking is perfectly fine which I’m betting on since I don’t charge at home and I regularly see -25 Fahrenheit. So what is it really?? @Ford I would like to know the facts from the horse’s mouth, no offense to you experts out there

Preheating for battery health, and preheating for battery performance is two different things.

The chemistry in the lightning isn't unique and you can look to publications for that chemistry to determin if it's safe to use at low temps.

However output can still be limited and warming the battery allows full performance.

My battery was not being warmed when it was in the mid 40s, but was also derating in the mid 30s. Warming the battery allows it to deliver full power without derating.

 

[TaxmanHog]

It takes me and my wife more than 15 minutes to get our crap together in the morning, plenty of time to run remote start, by the time she's ready the truck is too.

BTW, I'm far from an expert as the Lighting is my very first experience with EV's of any sort, I'm all about gathering empirical evidence {the scientific method}, from that confirming the intent of the Lightning designers.

 

[potato]

And just a data point. Lightnings sit for months cold soaking without being plugged in on dealer lots. I haven't seen any direction to dealers to keep them plugged in or anything. I believe they are engineered for that and it's not harmful.

Precondition the battery if you need the performance and/or range. My opinion is it doesn't help anything else.

 

[Nolander]

Just set your battery to only charge at a narrow window (I do 4am to 7am) prior to Departure (assuming it works for your Electricity rates if on Time of use). The act of charging the battery especially at 48A (2024) or even higher for (22 or 23) will often times get the Battery Temp to or close to the optimal 60F that Ford seems to target with Preconditioning. 2 birds, 1 stone. You have to charge anyways, just do it when you want the battery to be warm.

The other aspect I would challenge to the "only beneficial on long trips" people is remember there is not only a benefit on the Departure trip but your battery will likely be warmer on your return trip home in the evening. For example if I depart with a 60F battery vs a 35F battery my battery is likely not to have completely normalized to ambient over an 8 hour period. So say on a 10F day, just guessing your battery maybe be at 40F vs 15F on the return so there is probably some retained benefit on that end.

And just a data point. Lightnings sit for months cold soaking without being plugged in on dealer lots. I haven't seen any direction to dealers to keep them plugged in or anything. I believe they are engineered for that and it's not harmful.

Precondition the battery if you need the performance and/or range. My opinion is it doesn't help anything else.

which reminds me, when I test drove my Truck(I just dropped in, not scheduled) it was sitting with a full charge). How many ignorant dealers top them off and let them sit?

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