Buyer Beware - Ford Does Not Stand by its Products or Customers

[JRT]

Wow, I can only imagine the stress this causes. I'd probably just bite the bullet and find a Toyota cheap to get buy and not lose my mind, life is too short to let a vehicle cause pain.

The BEV number is key, call for sure, and never underestimate the social media account of Ford.

I had so many issues with my local dealership with minor problems when I got my Mach-E, I sent an email to Jim Farley using the info below and got a return specialist named Karen who help get multiple dealership problems solved. She called and checked on me and it was really a reason I decided to move up to a Lightning, I also changed dealerships
https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/ford/

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[CyberIllusion]

I feel your pain. Mine is only one month since purchase and less than 1300 miles. Its been torn apart at the service department for 15 days of that one month. Issues include parking sensor, interior lighting and navigation glitches. I spent $72,000 for it to not work properly from the beginning and to now sit in their service department as they have no clue how to fix it. Very disappointed in FORD and my service department.

After 15 days of no resolution, I escalated to FORD, butI am not optimistic that anything will get done anytime soon.

Man that really sucks. I ended up having to call Ford customer service multiple times and have multiple case numbers assigned since some people on their customer relationship team are more willing to reach out than others.

 

[CyberIllusion]

Similar situation here owned truck for 3 months. 3k miles on my truck, been in the shop 10 times, currently in the shop with no idea when it will be out. Applied for buyback - denied by Ford. Now with Lemon Law Lawyer with high hopes of success.

Seems like you have a pretty good case given the low miles and # of times in the shop. I know mine is 1500 over the mileage limit for my state's lemon law, so it may not make much sense for me to go the lawyer route. Have you had as many issues with the Volvo XC40 Recharge EV?

 

[CyberIllusion]

Wow, I can only imagine the stress this causes. I'd probably just bite the bullet and find a Toyota cheap to get buy and not lose my mind, life is too short to let a vehicle cause pain.

The BEV number is key, call for sure, and never underestimate the social media account of Ford.

I had so many issues with my local dealership with minor problems when I got my Mach-E, I sent an email to Jim Farley using the info below and got a return specialist named Karen who help get multiple dealership problems solved. She called and checked on me and it was really a reason I decided to move up to a Lightning, I also changed dealerships
https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/ford/

I might end up going this route when its all over. Either a Toyota or Subaru, since I have owned both brands before and never had issues with the cars or dealerships. I already have a couple of cases open with the BEV team. They insisted I communicate with them and they would communicate with the dealership. It was a member of the BEV team that denied my buyback, told me I needed to pay for my own rental and didn't know how much longer it would take to get the correct tools to the dealership. This is why a lot of my disdain was towards Ford instead of the dealership.

 

[CyberIllusion]

@CyberIllusion, your anger is misplaced. Your dealership, no one else, is at fault for not having the proper equipment, which they should have purchased back in 2021. They've had basically 3 years. They failed you.

I will say that given your situation, you might have done a bit more research before buying a vehicle that was so critical to your daily needs. You bought a brand new vehicle with new technology. In your shoes, I would have ensured that my dealership promised an immediate loaner vehicle for all service, which you could have negotiated, based on your situation. Or, purchased an extended warranty with first day rental coverage.

It is pretty standard for Ford to agree to reimburse for a rental vehicle, limited to a daily dollar amount. If you can't float that, that's unfortunate, but your warranty doesn't even provide a rental vehicle.

Hi, thanks for the reply. I agree that the dealership is to blame as well, but most of my communication was with the BEV team, who were the ones that denied my buyback, told me I needed to rent my own vehicle and told me they didn't know how long it would take for the dealership to get the parts they needed. So within the span of a 5 minute phone call I was told all of this and so my anger was geared toward them.

I bought the truck in North Carolina but I had to move to Georgia a couple months later. In hindsight, it may have been better to just drive the truck back to the NC dealership given how bad my experience here in Georgia has been. When my truck started having issues I called 7 dealerships in this area and none of them offered loaners, and all but 1 had waiting lists of up to 2-3 weeks before they could even see what was wrong with the truck. The one dealership I chose said they could tell me whats wrong in a couple of days and ensured me they could work on EVs.

I also agree that I should have done more research. As I mentioned in my original post, I bought into the Ford marketing / hype and believed the product would benefit my family. I should of been looking for horror stories like the one I'm living before making that decision.

 

[djwildstar]

I wanted to warn about the potential downfall of purchasing a vehicle from Ford Motor Company [...] On 12/30/23 with only 25,500 miles on the dash, the truck failed with a bad battery module, refusing to charge past 50% with limited acceleration.

Hello to a fellow Georgian!

The Georgia "lemon law" applies within the first 24 months of ownership or first 24,000 miles of use -- whichever comes first. So unfortunately, it looks like this protection has expired.

The good news is that this issue falls squarely within Ford's warranty, and Ford also has an active high-voltage battery and BECM customer satisfaction program. You should have gotten a letter about this issue last fall. Overall, the issue is fixable, and at no cost to you.

Remember that by Georgia state law, Ford must sell and service its vehicles via independently-owned and -managed dealerships. Ultimately it is up to the dealerships (not Ford) to hire technicians, train them, and provide them with the appropriate tools and facilities. Chestatee Ford is listed as EV-certified on Ford's website, so they should have access to everything needed. However, if they are having problems doing the work, you may want to call Ford's EV support group. Ford's EV team may be able to help arrange a loaner or reimburse a rental or help Chestatee get the right tools and parts. It's possible that a smaller dealership may not have the right facilities, but you aren't far from Atlanta and a number of larger dealerships -- so Ford's EV team might be able to direct you to other dealers that have already done battery module swaps.

With regard to your specific questions:

• Why did the battery module fail? Ultimately, a manufacturing defect. EV batteries have proven to be harder than most automakers thought, leading to a variety of repair and recall campaigns. In Ford's case, battery modules can develop a voltage instability; usually within the first year or so. It is essentially luck of the draw -- overall about a 4% chance. If your truck has one of these "bad" battery modules, when the truck's BECM detects the voltage instability, it limits charging and power until the affected battery module is replaced.
• Are the other battery modules defective? Probably not. This is this is essentially random manufacturing defect. A back-of-the-envelope statistical model suggests about 1 in 25 trucks will have 1 bad module, roughly 1 in 625 will have two bad modules, and that three or more is highly unlikely (less than 1 in 15,000).
• Can it be fixed? Yes! Ford has a procedure to swap out bad battery modules. The battery modules are between the frame rails under the cab, so the swap isn't easy. Assuming that all of the parts and tools are available, it takes a day or so per module. The main delay people have reported is getting parts -- I've heard some dealers needed several weeks to get the battery modules.
• Can you get a loaner? Yes! the Ford customer satisfaction program for the Lightning's high-voltage battery issue specifically states that loaner/rental cars are authorized if a battery module swap is needed. Not all dealers are familiar with this, so contact Ford's EV support group to get this escalated.

 

[shutterbug]

It is pretty standard for Ford to agree to reimburse for a rental vehicle, limited to a daily dollar amount. If you can't float that, that's unfortunate, but your warranty doesn't even provide a rental vehicle.

The 2 times my Lightning needed to be in for multi-day period, the service adviser offered a loaner unprompted. Again, this should be on the dealer.

 

[Hammick]

You need to go up the supervisor chain at the BEV team. When my Lariat ER threw the powertrain fault 1,200 miles from home I was getting a bunch of runaround from my BEV representative. I spent 3k to get the truck, wife, dog and myself back home. I had it all preauthorized from a BEV supervisor. The battery module was at my dealer waiting for me when I got back and it took them two days to fix it.

I would also find another dealer to fix it If I were you and I would ask if they have ever done this repair on another Lightning. Ford shouldn't send a battery module to a dealer that doesn't have the lift and other tools to remove the battery module.

 

[CyberIllusion]

Hello to a fellow Georgian!

The Georgia "lemon law" applies within the first 24 months of ownership or first 24,000 miles of use -- whichever comes first. So unfortunately, it looks like this protection has expired.

The good news is that this issue falls squarely within Ford's warranty, and Ford also has an active high-voltage battery and BECM customer satisfaction program. You should have gotten a letter about this issue last fall. Overall, the issue is fixable, and at no cost to you.

Remember that by Georgia state law, Ford must sell and service its vehicles via independently-owned and -managed dealerships. Ultimately it is up to the dealerships (not Ford) to hire technicians, train them, and provide them with the appropriate tools and facilities. Chestatee Ford is listed as EV-certified on Ford's website, so they should have access to everything needed. However, if they are having problems doing the work, you may want to call Ford's EV support group. Ford's EV team may be able to help arrange a loaner or reimburse a rental or help Chestatee get the right tools and parts. It's possible that a smaller dealership may not have the right facilities, but you aren't far from Atlanta and a number of larger dealerships -- so Ford's EV team might be able to direct you to other dealers that have already done battery module swaps.

With regard to your specific questions:

• Why did the battery module fail? Ultimately, a manufacturing defect. EV batteries have proven to be harder than most automakers thought, leading to a variety of repair and recall campaigns. In Ford's case, battery modules can develop a voltage instability; usually within the first year or so. It is essentially luck of the draw -- overall about a 4% chance. If your truck has one of these "bad" battery modules, when the truck's BECM detects the voltage instability, it limits charging and power until the affected battery module is replaced.
• Are the other battery modules defective? Probably not. This is this is essentially random manufacturing defect. A back-of-the-envelope statistical model suggests about 1 in 25 trucks will have 1 bad module, roughly 1 in 625 will have two bad modules, and that three or more is highly unlikely (less than 1 in 15,000).
• Can it be fixed? Yes! Ford has a procedure to swap out bad battery modules. The battery modules are between the frame rails under the cab, so the swap isn't easy. Assuming that all of the parts and tools are available, it takes a day or so per module. The main delay people have reported is getting parts -- I've heard some dealers needed several weeks to get the battery modules.
• Can you get a loaner? Yes! the Ford customer satisfaction program for the Lightning's high-voltage battery issue specifically states that loaner/rental cars are authorized if a battery module swap is needed. Not all dealers are familiar with this, so contact Ford's EV support group to get this escalated.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I was able to talk to the dealership today and am hopeful they will be able to wrap things up for me in the next week or so. I've always had really good experiences with dealerships in NC so being new here in Georgia I didn't expect things to be so different. I will definitely do more research in on my options here in the future.

 

[rdr854]

No issues with XC40 Recharge at all. There was one recall for the antenna gasket but it was in and out of the shop in 1/2 a day. It gets updates all the time with new features regularly. Really has been a great car.

That gives me comfort. Thinking about trading my V90 for an EX90.

 

[Lytning]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I was able to talk to the dealership today and am hopeful they will be able to wrap things up for me in the next week or so. I've always had really good experiences with dealerships in NC so being new here in Georgia I didn't expect things to be so different. I will definitely do more research in on my options here in the future.

I am glad it is looking a little better for you. My dealership also had to order a special tool for my battery module replacement, even though they had done 2 previously. I suggest vigorously pursuing reimbursement of your rental vehicle expenses with Ford. I think you have a good chance of getting reimbursement, especially if you keep pushing it up their organization chart.

 

[Oneand0]

In less than two weeks mine will have been out of service for 4 months, sitting at the dealership. I’m still waiting. Last I heard they are still waiting for the part to be sent. I’m out of state lemon law.

 

[GDN]

In less than two weeks mine will have been out of service for 4 months, sitting at the dealership. I’m still waiting. Last I heard they are still waiting for the part to be sent. I’m out of state lemon law.

Have they given you another vehicle to drive?

 

[Oneand0]

Have they given you another vehicle to drive?

They told me to rent one.

 

[flux capacitor]

The trouble with the dealers is that they all received equipment, but never used it or unboxed it. Some of the equipment was missing and some didn't even work. The trouble is since they do not know what they are missing until they start working on it they find misc parts like cables missing that they have to order again and the have a tendency to do it by regular ground shipping which is 2 weeks or more even for a cable.

Mine went in Oct 4 and did not get it back until Nov 22. I priced out how much a module currently costs and it is about 5k. Probably another 5k to install it which is all covered by warranty. As we all know prices will come down in the future and when the dealers learn how to replace them the labor cost should hopefully go down as well. There is a great youtube video showing the process " 2022 Ford F150 Lightning High Voltage Battery Module replacement "

Ford was very supportive with me. They understood my feelings about just buying the truck with 2k miles on it and only driving it a couple of months and I get a major problem. I got a personal rep that kept me informed and worked with me through the whole process. They even gave me a little something for all my trouble. I have no complaints other than the Dealer having all the missing equipment sent by ground. The battery module was at the Dealer in a week the rest of the time was spent waiting for the shipping of the equipment.

I went through wondering if I made a mistake buying one and the feeling like I could not trust it again, but after a couple of weeks after getting it back I was all positive about it again. After doing research, I think if you are going to get a EV the Lightning is the best designed one out there. What no one has brought up is the fact Ford designed the battery into modules it is not just one large battery that if one little part goes bad the whole thing needs to be replaced. All the EV's I see out there are a single battery pack, which is very expensive to replace like almost the cost of the vehicle itself. Ford was brilliant to go with the modules. The warranty for the batteries is 8 years so the worst that can happen is I have to have a few modules replaced and no usage for a little while. When you compare to a high cost gas or diesel just think what you would have to pay for a new engine after it is out of warranty and they don't have and 8 year warranty typically. I am averaging over 70 mpge at a cost of 15 cents a kwh and I have a 4 wheel drive truck that costs to drive like a Toyota Corolla.

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