BYD announces 1000V battery, 5 min to charge

[hturnerfamily]

and, on a second concern, about 'the grid':

while sometimes we wonder if the 'grid' will be able to support our EV charging, my view is that if much of our 'extra' EV charging amperage happens at night, we are then charging AFTER the bulk of the grid's daily requirements are already 'sleeping' for the overnight...

so, if the grid is handling, for instance, 10MW(mega watts) of transmission during the hottest and highest demand of the day(generally 2pm to 7pm,etc), that demand is already built and supported by the grid's infrastructure.
When the nighttime arrives, the demand may fall to 5.

I would doubt that even every EV charging during that time would stress the 'grid'.

The same applies to your local transformers.
If you use, at the daily peak at 5pm, your 240v oven/stove, air conditioning, water heating, etc, and pulling 100amps, max.. then during the overnight hours, when much less is in play, such as only air conditioning, or heating, periodically, you have plenty of capacity for the EV to pull 30-50amps of typical EV charging, without any local or grid capacity issues.
This is even less of a concern for those with gas heating and/or appliances.

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[Firn]

per Rheem:
Model NumberRTEX-36
Kilowatts36kW
Recommended Breaker Size(4x40)A
Voltage240/208V
Recommended Wire Size (CU)8 AWG
Min. Flow (GPM)0.3
Max. Flow (GPM)8
Amps150A

while any whole house Water Heater system like this may require up to 4 double-pole 240v breakers in your panel, and up to 150a of total capacity, AT FULL WATER HEATER OUTPUT, it's also not going to be 'usual' for the max output, or the max 150a capacity, to be used at most any given moment. Yes, two showers and clothes washing and dish washing 'might' all happen at the same time... but... all elements don't draw at the same time, all the time - but only when needed, in rare occasions. " a sensor measures flow rate while another sensor measures the incoming water temperature. This information is transmitted continually to the computer logic controls which decide how much power to send to the heating elements to heat the water to your desired temperature. "

'lectricians will most always build to the 'worst' case scenario and may demand a 400amp panel, along with all your other regular electrical needs...

but, the reality that all of that happening, at max capacity, and at the same time your two air conditioners are going, and the oven is baking, and the stove is cooking... all at the same time... no, not reality.
Or, it's the middle of the night, and your EVs are pulling amps... you're probably sleeping, not showering and cooking.

Unlike a traditional water heater which operates both AS your are using heated water, and as needed to maintain temperature throughout the day, the USAGE-BASED tankless water heaters ONLY operate during that VERY SHORT timeframe that the heated water is needed, and NEVER again throughout the day or night. A long shower might be 10-15 minutes. A clothes washer might require heated water for 5 total minutes of it's cycle. A dishwasher about the same. etc.
This amounts to about 30minutes to 1hour in a WHOLE 24 hr period, and probably not while your EV is charging, and probably rarely, if ever, using the full 36kw capacity.

I like the idea, and would not hesitate to replace a tanked water heater with this type of system in our 'standard' all-electric 200amp home, with our two full EVs, two 30amp heat pumps, and a separate mini-split... although we never use 'all' of those at the same time.

36kw was the largest residential unit i could readily find, most of them were much smaller, even down to 11kw.

Since this is now a water heater discussion, lol.

I would strongly recommend a heat pump water heater over an on demand one. The on demand heaters are no more efficient than a tanked system at making hot water, they just don't bleed heat from the tank so overall efficiency is slightly better. A heat pump water heater on the other hand uses SIGNIFICANTLY less energy, being up to almost 400% more efficient. Installing one in our house dropped our energy bill by around $100, offsetting about half of the cost of charging the lightning (~2,000 miles per month). Even with 6 people in the house we have never kicked on the regular heating element.

 

[MotoGary]

Since this is now a water heater discussion, lol.

 

[chl]

I read it as the technology is being announced and starting production. Either way, the business world is excited about it.

Wall Street Journal: BYD Shares Touch All-Time High After Unveiling New Charging Tech

China is going to dominate the EV market everywhere but in the US it appears.

 

[chl]

From the WSJ article:

"...The charging system will be available on the company’s new Han L sedan and Tang L sport-utility vehicle models, which will go on sale next month, BYD said..."

So not just an idea or a concept or a goal...but something tangible it seems?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'm impressed with the BYD charging system, but am not especially jealous of a 5-minute charge. That's not even enough time to get to the restroom, much less finish my business, buy some snacks, and get back to the car. That said, China is pulling further and further ahead while we seem to be going back to coal-gas-fueled, hand-cranked horseless carriages. Good job us?

I installed a Stiebel Eltron Tempra Plus 20kW tankless water heater as a replacement for a tanked energy-wasting resistive heater. The 20 kW install required two 40A, 240V breakers and circuits. The Tempra 36 kW install requires three 50A, 240v breakers and circuits. I regret not getting a heat pump heater instead.

 

[Zprime29]

Post 19 is the first place I see 86kW thrown out. @Firn looks like you are assuming six 60A breakers with each breaker at 240V. Are there 240v breakers? I'm definitely not an electrician, but as I understand it, each breaker is 120V and we tie 2 out of phase breakers to get 240V. So the six breakers mentioned is actually three pairs of breakers to achieve 3 * 60A * 240V = 43,200W

On the topic of the grid, I'm looking forward to bi-directional EVSE allowing for micro-grids. There are more solutions to stabilization than just, "add more power plants".

How long have we been promised solid state EV batteries now? I almost think fusion reactors will come on line first.

 

[Firn]

Post 19 is the first place I see 86kW thrown out. @Firn looks like you are assuming six 60A breakers with each breaker at 240V. Are there 240v breakers? I'm definitely not an electrician, but as I understand it, each breaker is 120V and we tie 2 out of phase breakers to get 240V. So the six breakers mentioned is actually three pairs of breakers to achieve 3 * 60A * 240V = 43,200W

On the topic of the grid, I'm looking forward to bi-directional EVSE allowing for micro-grids. There are more solutions to stabilization than just, "add more power plants".

How long have we been promised solid state EV batteries now? I almost think fusion reactors will come on line first.

120v or 240v depends on if you go from one phase to neutral, or from one phase to another phase. Breakers themselves can be 120v or 240v. Heating elements, or objects that use a lot of power, are typically on 240v since it lowers the current to achieve any given wattage (w=I x V), current is what makes heat in the wires. Double the voltage, half the current.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Post 19 is the first place I see 86kW thrown out. @Firn looks like you are assuming six 60A breakers with each breaker at 240V. Are there 240v breakers? I'm definitely not an electrician, but as I understand it, each breaker is 120V and we tie 2 out of phase breakers to get 240V. So the six breakers mentioned is actually three pairs of breakers to achieve 3 * 60A * 240V = 43,200W

On the topic of the grid, I'm looking forward to bi-directional EVSE allowing for micro-grids. There are more solutions to stabilization than just, "add more power plants".

How long have we been promised solid state EV batteries now? I almost think fusion reactors will come on line first.

Zprime, glad you and I are on the same page. you totally understand what I wrote.
But to clarify the amperage / wattage. the 60 amp breakers are used since with a constant heating demand we can only draw 80% of the rated breaker. so if the actual load is 50 amps, we need to use 60 amp breakers and wiring to stay under the 80% rule. 50 amps @ 240 volts is 12,000 watts/ 12 kw.
As I stated in my original post that you were smart enough to read and understand, 6-60 amp 120 / 3-60 amp 240v breakers are required to supply the required 36,000 / 36kw load.
Not 43,200 since the elements are 3x 12kw and certainly not 86kw what Firn claims I said.
Thanks Zprime for understanding and knowing what i'm talking about. Seems like Firn was the one all along saying 86kw. obviously he was assuming 6-240v breakers drawing a full 60 amps. of course you saw his mistake and lack of knowledge which I tried several times to point out to him. Glad to put this to rest.

Rick

 

[Firn]

Zprime, glad you and I are on the same page. you totally understand what I wrote.
But to clarify the amperage / wattage. the 60 amp breakers are used since with a constant heating demand we can only draw 80% of the rated breaker. so if the actual load is 50 amps, we need to use 60 amp breakers and wiring to stay under the 80% rule. 50 amps @ 240 volts is 12,000 watts/ 12 kw.
As I stated in my original post that you were smart enough to read and understand, 6-60 amp 120 / 3-60 amp 240v breakers are required to supply the required 36,000 / 36kw load.
Not 43,200 since the elements are 3x 12kw and certainly not 86kw what Firn claims I said.
Thanks Zprime for understanding and knowing what i'm talking about. Seems like Firn was the one all along saying 86kw. obviously he was assuming 6-240v breakers drawing a full 60 amps. of course you saw his mistake and lack of knowledge which I tried several times to point out to him. Glad to put this to rest.

Rick

Why don't you go ahead and provide us a link to that 36kw 120v tankless water heater that would be using six 60a breakers.
Do it right next to this 6-60a breaker vs 3-60a breaker that as best anyone can tell isn't any sort of standard electric nomenclature, it just seems to be something you invented to make you sound right.

While you are at it go ahead and quote where you clarified you meant six 120v breakers when I asked multiple times for you to give those details.

 

[Zprime29]

Why don't you go ahead and provide us a link to that 36kw 120v tankless water heater that would be using six 60a breakers.
Do it right next to this 6-60a breaker vs 3-60a breaker that as best anyone can tell isn't any sort of standard electric nomenclature, it just seems to be something you invented to make you sound right.

While you are at it go ahead and quote where you clarified you meant six 120v breakers when I asked multiple times for you to give those details.

A 50% increase from 24kW to 36kW would be accomplished by increasing the breakers to 60A. They had the 36kW version but for some reason didn't include this picture on that listing. I think it explains what Rick is talking about.

 

[Firn]

A 50% increase from 24kW to 36kW would be accomplished by increasing the breakers to 60A. They had the 36kW version but for some reason didn't include this picture on that listing. I think it explains what Rick is talking about.

A 50% increase from 24kW to 36kW would be accomplished by increasing the breakers to 60A. They had the 36kW version but for some reason didn't include this picture on that listing. I think it explains what Rick is talking about.

I hate to continue this as a water heater discussion but that's just the point. That uses 3 40a 240v circuits, or as you say it can use 3 60a 240v circuits. When he said 6-60, which isn't any standard nomenclature that states voltage etc, it causes questions. Generally speaking high power use items use 240v so saying 6-60 doesn't imply anything other than six, 60a circuits, which again for a high draw item would be 240v, like you show. Six 60a circuits is an insane draw. Since he uses this as a foundation for the wild claims that the entire grid can't handle electric vehicle charging i pointed out the issue in claiming it was six circuits. This could have been very easily corrected by stating he ment 120v circuits, which would numerically work, but I can't find any 120v whole house tankless water heaters, let alone one that employs six circuits. But instead of clarifying, he claims everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about and just throws out some high school level electronics to just make a gishgab.

At the end of the day if you cannot articulate the power demands, continue to make arguments that don't answer the point and don't make sense, then just claim it's the other person who doesn't understand it's just cheap debate tactics.

Ultimately, the power usage of a single water heater is irrelevant to the discussion being had, and continuing to just drag it down there, even through it was pointed out multiple times, that isn't the discussion means he DOESNT have the ability to articulate the greater point, which was the ability of large scale utilities to provide power. And no level of arguments about water heater power usage, or that once a big house was remodeled, changes that. Every argument is just anecdotal or off topic. Which is standard tactic when you don't know what you are talking about.

Ultimately I'm sorry for my part in the water heater discussion, it was fun watching him continuously screw up on how this works, but my part contributed to further pointless arguments about irrelevant water heaters, for which I appoligize.

 

[Zprime29]

@Firn it was obvious to me what he meant and I'm not an electrician. You have to use 2 slots in a breaker panel to achieve 240v. As shown in the picture, you need 6 breaker slots to get the desired amps at 240v. Google's AI says there are no single slot 240v breakers in the US.

@Ricks Lightning next time just say "3 dual pole breakers which take up 6 slots" and we can avoid this confusion in the future.

On topic, until BYD demonstrates the capability with something other than a prototype its just a claim. If it becomes a reality, there will be someone who figures out how to make it work... so long as there is money to be made anyways. That bottom dollar is a big motivator.

 

[jetfixr1]

Came here for the BYD announcement and ended up in the tankless water heater debacle. I’ll show myself out thanks.

 

[potato]

Even if the conversation were on topic, it's still pretty moot. There will never be megawatt charging stations available where you need them.

I guess I shouldn't say "never", but not in the next 10-15 years I would guess. We can't even get 350 kW stations built out.

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