Charger reports 9.6 kW but Lightning reports 8 kW. Why?

[Alan Rovner]

Hi all, this is my first post to the forum. I have a standard range 2023 F150 Lightning XLT and an Emporia charger. The charger is a 40 Amp 9.6 kW charger. When charging the Lightning, the Emporia app shows a charging rate of 9.6 kW and it's very consistent. The Ford Pass app shows a charging rate of 8 kW.

Why is there a difference? Where did the missing 1.6 kW go? Is the Lightning limited to 8 kW? Thanks for any info.

Regards,
Alan Rovner, K7AR
Vancouver, Wash.

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[Pioneer74]

1. Charge losses. Around 10%.

2. Rounding. In my experience, the app rounds down.

3. Reliability. In my experience, FordPass isn't reliable.

 

[RickLightning]

Two reasons.

1) There is a loss from wall to truck. Assume 8%. So 8.8.

2) Ford app truncated decimal place. 8.8 becomes 8. You can prove this by math. Charge for say 2 hours exactly. Fird app will show kWh added. Will be more than 16.

 

[vvgogh]

The floor rounding they use makes the charger look very inefficient. Great software.

 

[vandy1981]

I see 10-14% loss with level 2 charging depending on ambient temps, so this about what I would expect.

 

[Alan Rovner]

Thank you guys, I didn't realize there was that much loss involved. Looks like things are working normally.

Regards,
Alan Rovner

 

[RickLightning]

Thank you guys, I didn't realize there was that much loss involved. Looks like things are working normally.

Regards,
Alan Rovner

As I noted, it is loss AND truncation. Loss alone would result in a decimal place, and the app never displays it. You can hookup an OBD reader and see exactly what the truck is getting, then look at the app and see the discrepancy.

Or, you charge for a period of time, then do the math and see that total kWh added doesn't match the rate x time.

 

[chl]

Hi all, this is my first post to the forum. I have a standard range 2023 F150 Lightning XLT and an Emporia charger. The charger is a 40 Amp 9.6 kW charger. When charging the Lightning, the Emporia app shows a charging rate of 9.6 kW and it's very consistent. The Ford Pass app shows a charging rate of 8 kW.

Why is there a difference? Where did the missing 1.6 kW go? Is the Lightning limited to 8 kW? Thanks for any info.

Regards,
Alan Rovner, K7AR
Vancouver, Wash.

L2 charging losses are typically between 10% and 25% depending.

So the Emporia is providing the 9.6kW of power, but the Lightning battery is only receiving the 8kW Ford Pass app says.

Losses include the wire (resistance loss), the AC-to-DC converter (heat loss - typically between 75 and 95 percent efficient), and the battery itself (it heats up during charging, chemical reactions, and heat is energy lost).

Explained at for example: https://go-e.com/en/magazine/ev-charging-losses

 

[RickLightning]

L2 charging losses are typically between 10% and 25% depending.

So the Emporia is providing the 9.6kW of power, but the Lightning battery is only receiving the 8kW Ford Pass app says.

Losses include the wire (resistance loss), the AC-to-DC converter (heat loss - typically between 75 and 95 percent efficient), and the battery itself (it heats up during charging, chemical reactions, and heat is energy lost).

Explained at for example: https://go-e.com/en/magazine/ev-charging-losses

As I have stated a few times, a good portion of the difference is the "loss" of the decimal point number.

Again, it's simple math. You can either do the math, or you can use an OBD reader and car scanner to see exactly what the car is receiving.

My charger puts out 11.5kW of energy. My car receives ~10.5. The FordPass app shows 10. It's not 10, it's 10.5. You can see the total energy after exactly say 30 minutes, or 1 hour, doesn't add up to the amount added. It will show say 21 added in 2 hours, when the app is showing a rate of 10. 10x2 = 20. 10.5x2 = 21. Easy to see.

 

[Heliian]

depending on ambient temps

This is a key factor. The charging system will use power to heat or cool the battery and components. Line losses are minimal.

Also, the app is absolutely terrible as far as accuracy and stability.

 

[vandy1981]

This is a key factor. The charging system will use power to heat or cool the battery and components. Line losses are minimal.

Also, the app is absolutely terrible as far as accuracy and stability.

I think there's also quite a bit of loss with the AC to DC converter. Efficiency losses with DCFC are around 5-6%, although some of this difference could be explained by shorter charging times (i.e. less time spend conditioning the battery).

 

[carys98]

In addition, some of the power is used to run the coolant pump and the compressor and fans to maintain the battery temp.

 

[chl]

As I have stated a few times, a good portion of the difference is the "loss" of the decimal point number.

Again, it's simple math. You can either do the math, or you can use an OBD reader and car scanner to see exactly what the car is receiving.

My charger puts out 11.5kW of energy. My car receives ~10.5. The FordPass app shows 10. It's not 10, it's 10.5. You can see the total energy after exactly say 30 minutes, or 1 hour, doesn't add up to the amount added. It will show say 21 added in 2 hours, when the app is showing a rate of 10. 10x2 = 20. 10.5x2 = 21. Easy to see.

Yes that would account for about 1/2 the apparent loss.
Odd they drop the decimal in the app.

 

[Pioneer74]

This is how bad this app is.

 

[Zprime29]

Is it worth even day dreaming that Ford will improve this? *sigh*

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