FCSP if not doing home integration

[Zprime29]

I don't know why you'd want to keep it plugged in all the time when it's in your garage though, even when not charging, no reason I can think of to do that.

How about most EV makers recommending it?
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/should-you-charge-everyday.14900/post-307434

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[chl]

How about most EV makers recommending it?
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/should-you-charge-everyday.14900/post-307434

Yea, but only if you need to charge up overnight every day, so you don't run out of juice on the road.

But I never have done either with my 2012 Nissan Leaf - although I just drive locally so once or twice a week works for me and it only has about an 80 mile range to begin with on a 24 kWh battery.

Battery life is affected by how many charge discharge cycles the battery undergoes over time. That and temperature effects, e.g., thermal stress during fast DC charging, are the most significant factors in battery longevity.

"...Most electric vehicle batteries have an estimated 1500 to 2000 charge cycles. The array of cells have to charge 100%, then discharge to 0% for a cycle to be complete. While 500 cycles may be practical in a phone, it is not so for a car that is expected to last well over ten years.."

https://www.midtronics.com/blog/do-electric-car-ev-batteries-degrade-over-time/

So unless you really need to, I wouldn't recommend charging every day.

 

[Zprime29]

Yea, but only if you need to charge up overnight every day, so you don't run out of juice on the road.

Did you read the references? It also has to do with maintaining battery health in extreme temperatures. It might benefit you to do some additional research into the matter.

 

[jdmackes]

Does having max towing (with the increased cooling that comes with it) help when charging at a DC fast charger?

 

[Zprime29]

Possibly??? From what I know, the battery gets its own A/C with max tow. So when charging in 100+ weather, it's probably easier for the battery to maintain temp and keep the cabin cool. In general, think the difference is probably negligible. No first hand experience yet. My only road trips where in March with pleasant weather.

 

[chl]

Did you read the references? It also has to do with maintaining battery health in extreme temperatures. It might benefit you to do some additional research into the matter.

Yes, I read them.

I guess you might live in an area with extreme temperatures?

It is admittedly, a vague term but would seem to refer to extreme cold or extreme heat where temps of the battery risk going below -4F or above 104F either of which could cause damage.

If so, then best to keep it plugged in, and I stand corrected.

I don't live or drive in such a climate, and I never fast charge, so thermal management has not been an issue for me with my 2012 Nissan Leaf (which only has passive thermal management to avoid over heating situations).

I shouldn't have assumed it wasn't an issue for you. My apologies.

------------------

The link for the Ford seems to only be concerned with having enough battery range the next day.
It didn't seem to mention thermal management. "Just plug in at the end of your day, and every morning you’re charged. "

However, the recommendation in COLD weather to maximize battery RANGE would be to leave it plugged in: "...having some energy for the active battery thermal management system, and preconditioning (starting with a heated cabin without using electricity from the battery). .."

https://insideevs.com/news/623299/maximize-range-ford-f150-lightning-cold-weather/

So yes, I guess if one lives in Alaska, Minnesota, etc., or have a brutally cold winter, leave it plugged in for the thermal management to keep the battery warm and not deplete battery and reduce range if you need it.

And in extremely warm climates, leave it plugged in for cooling.

The other links are from other EV companies with presumably different systems for thermal management, maybe even different battery types?

The Volvo was for Hybrid vehicles when charging, although probably still pertinent, and dealt with thermal management (cooling) in "warmer" climates, a bit of a vague term, during charging. "The following article only applies to hybrid vehicles from the model year 2022 [or] Late[r]."

It seems the Kia people say to park in the shade and/or keep the vehicle plugged in to not drain the battery that runs the thermal management, which I assume is referring to when the temperature is very HOT and not cold : " Exposure to the extreme heat while parking unplugged is when the frequent danger occurs. An automated temperature control system installed in your electric car will needlessly drain your batteries to keep the temperatures down for optimal efficiency..."

OMG, remind me never to buy a Kia EV! Imagine living in Phoenix and having to search for shade (as if that would help much) or a nearby EVSE to plug into when out and about on errands to avoid "frequent danger!!!"

I didn't download and read the Rivian manual, so I'm not sure what they mean by maintain battery health, but I'd also assume it means the thermal management under very hot or very cold conditions.

What does the term extreme weather conditions mean exactly?

"How Extreme Weather Affects an Electric Car's Battery. Very cold or hot weather—generally defined as below 20 degrees or above 95 degrees Fahrenheit, according to AAA —can cause a drop in EV range."

https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/extrem...ic-vehicles-handle-super-hot-and-cold-weather

"All electric cars experience some degree of range loss in cold weather. For EV owners in colder winter climates, like northern portions of the United States, daily driving and charging behaviors must be adjusted in these months.

That’s the bad news. The good news is that this range loss is temporary and there is no long term detriment to your battery. As the ice melts and the temperatures rise, your vehicle’s expected range at full charge should return to normal. "

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

One clarification to that last article is the Nissan Leaf has a battery warmer that kicks in before the battery reaches a cold temperature that could lead to damage, very unlikely. The battery temperature would have to get very very cold to cause damage.

Li batteries suffer permanent damage below -4 degrees F (-20C).

Damage to an EV battery can occur when the battery gets above 104 degrees F (40C).

"Starting at about 40 °C (104 °F), irreversible damage to the battery can occur.
Between 70 and 100 °C, thermal runaway can begin causing a chain reaction that destroys the cell and spreads to adjacent cells, eventually destroying the entire pack."

https://www.batterypowertips.com/ev-battery-thermal-management-challenges-faq/

 

[Zprime29]

I guess you might live in an area with extreme temperatures?

We hit 102 this past weekend and we aren't yet to the hottest part of our summer. So yeah...

Those links were primarily geared towards the fears or misconceptions about plugging in every day. The people making the car say to do it, it is ok, it is recommended. Our resident battery expert with over a decade of experience stress testing these batteries says it's ok. Given that I'll hit 110+ in July/August (Phoenix gets even hotter than me), it will be important for me to plug in every day for battery health.

I think it's disingenuous to promote behavior based on personal use case. I try to find literature to back my assertions or defer to people with more knowledge. And I say that as a general statement, not trying to call anyone out. I won't be offended if I get called out.

 

[chl]

We hit 102 this past weekend and we aren't yet to the hottest part of our summer. So yeah...

Those links were primarily geared towards the fears or misconceptions about plugging in every day. The people making the car say to do it, it is ok, it is recommended. Our resident battery expert with over a decade of experience stress testing these batteries says it's ok. Given that I'll hit 110+ in July/August (Phoenix gets even hotter than me), it will be important for me to plug in every day for battery health.

I think it's disingenuous to promote behavior based on personal use case. I try to find literature to back my assertions or defer to people with more knowledge. And I say that as a general statement, not trying to call anyone out. I won't be offended if I get called out.

Sorry, but I really didn't intend to be untruthful or insincere about it, the meaning of "disingenuous."

I just didn't realize you were in an extreme temperature environment where plugging in all the time really might be an absolute necessity if one owns an EV.

I say MIGHT BE because according to another owner (see below), the Lightning cooling system works even when NOT plugged in (although finding that information in a Ford manual may be difficult) so it may just be a matter of whether you need more range capacity the next time you drive.

Think about it. It would make no sense to have the cooling system NOT work unless plugged in. Just imagine being out on a work site in the scorching heat, no shade, midday, and having your battery overheat because the truck wasn't plugged in! Ridiculous.

In another forum chain here, a Mach-e and Lightning owner said "the Ford Lightning battery will cool itself when not plugged in if needed, but it has a higher threshold than when plugged in to not use as much power. This shouldn't have any impact on battery life, but you may have some power reduction when you first start driving if it is really hot. "

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...weather-when-not-plugged-in.15313/post-314147

BTW, I am not unknowledgeable about the subject, I have a masters in EE since 1989 and have owned an EV since Dec. 2011 (2012 Nissan Leaf).

I do remember how poorly the passively cooled Leaf did for owners in Phoenix, something we all learned about from Leaf forums, not from Nissan until there was a lawsuit. I have not had that problem here in the DC suburbs where the weather is milder.

The Lightning has active cooling that apparently works even when not plugged in. But better safe than sorry so like you, I would plug in when the weather is hot even if it might not be absolutely ncessary.

I think one of the best thing about forums is there is often a lot one can learn from another person's "personal use case" that you won't find out from the manufacture's literature - real-world experience by owners/users.

Yes it is subjective and may not apply to your own personal situation, but sometimes it does.

Anyway, in that vein, be sure to let everyone know how things go in 110F heat - a real-world test for the battery cooling system on the Lightning if there are any problems. There shouldn't be. I say that because other personal case reports from owners here and elsewhere say no problemo.

Best regards.

 

[chl]

I do remember how poorly the passively cooled Leaf did for owners in Phoenix, something we all learned about from Leaf forums, not from Nissan until there was a lawsuit. I have not had that problem here in the DC suburbs where the weather is milder.

[/QUOTE]

PS: An example of another thing I found out from the forums for the Leaf, that Nissan didn't mention, was that if the vehicle sits in the off state for more than a few weeks, the vampire systems (chraging timer, etc.) will drain the 12 volt battery, even though the vehicle's Li battery is 80% charged and the vehicle is plugged in - the 12 volt battery is not kept charged by the Li battery and only charges when the Leaf is on. Found that out the hard way when I came back from a long trip to a dead car. Jump starting and charging the 12v battery fixed that.

 

[Zprime29]

Sorry, but I really didn't intend to be untruthful or insincere about it, the meaning of "disingenuous."

I added that it was a general statement specifically to make you aware that I wasn't trying to call you disingenuous. There were some posts made in the thread that I linked to that I thought might be in that vein. Sorry that didn't come across.

I'm well aware that the truck will cool itself even while not plugged in. The point I was trying to make is in regards to the notion that plugging in the truck every day is bad, which is misleading.

 

[Zprime29]

Temp when I left work yesterday, thankfully my garage only gets morning sun.

 

[SmoothJ]

I already have 2 OpenEVSEs in the house, both can charge at around 40A and I am fine with that. I did received the FCSP and was planning on selling it, however one of my EVSEs is starting to give me a GFCI error. So while that is down for "maintenance" (all the parts are open source and replaceable) I need to figure out how to fix the other one, and to wire up the FCSP via cord.

 

[MJDore]

FWIW I *did* have the FCSP installed at 80A on a 100A breaker and have had zero faults, zero issues, and the charge rate is fantastic. I have no plans to home integrate with the unwieldy and expensive SunRun/Ford "solution" (and I use that word very loosely). If charge rate doesn't matter, sure you could skim a few hundred bucks out of it and get a 48A, but from my perspective, this is the right home charger for the F150.

Same for me. Zero issues.

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