Finding EV Charging Locations

[Sdctcher]

I have been thinking about the news these past few days on various companies (Walmart, GM, Hertz, etc.) installing networks of EV chargers at stores, hotels, and dealerships. Most of these would be Level 2, 30-40 amps, that could charge at a rate giving the EV a boost of 25-35 miles per charge hour.

DC fast chargers are great for speed charging but over time can be battery killers, hence, Level 2 chargers for the average charge. And Level 2 can be installed cheaper given available power and wiring at sites.

If I were the average driver I would like to go out to do my chores (pick up groceries, post office, McDs) for a total of 20-30 miles, and then back home to hook up to my at-home installed Level 2 charger at a cheap rate tonight.

While at the store I would like to hook up to the parking lot charger to top off for an hour while shopping. The store likes it because I am drawn to them for the charger and am a captive audience, so will probably buy more.

When I take my travel trailer out for short camping trips I would stop for groceries and supplies at the local Walmart and top off in their large parking lot at dedicated RV pull throughs while shopping. Maybe even spend a few hours at a nearby shopping mall and restaurant giving me an even bigger range boost and a chance to spend more money.

Hotels installing chargers will be able to draw the EV adopter crowd at much less cost to them than what they now spend to maintain a pool. Go to the golf course, charge up for 3-4 hours. There are many examples of attractions that might want a captive crowd for an extended period of time and they could charge the customer for the charge up on a sliding scale based on the time they spent at the business.

I am just throwing out ideas on the logic on why Level 2 charger networks may be expanding faster than we might think. With EV adoption, it has always been a question of the chicken or egg first. Think about why convenience store gas stations became more popular draws a few years ago vs regular gas-only stations. EV charging amenities could become the draw for real dollars.

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[Peanutsparisinsyrup]

The major issue with level 2 chargers is that there's little to no incentive to keep them in good repair. Unlike DC chargers they're not "critical" . Once the tax credit has been claimed many places make them handicap spots or abandon them.

Unless you're in a place with super high EV adoption.

Http://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/21/why-are-rural-level-2-ev-charging-stations-dying/amp/

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

Let me try to answer...

Charge Speed:
Public charge stations are going the opposite direction toward faster charges. Freewire offers a public station that includes a battery. It connects to the building at L2 level (22kW) and charges an EV at 160. I give you this example to show that there are way to have both. My company just bought our first one and we became a reseller for them. A 160 charge rate IS slow for a medium duty truck. 350 is the next jump.

Charging while on errands:
It doesn't happen.
That would be like putting a gallon of gas in your ICE car at every store simply because they set gallon containers out on the curb. You cannot "hog" a charge station for hours without paying a reduced fee per minute for hogging the space.

It's not necessary.
Why do you imagine you will want to top off while shopping locally when your EV has a week of range? Yes, fast charging is harder on your pack. Charge at home while you sleep. Pay for public charging when you travel beyond your range.

 

[techguydave]

Absolutely. Any smart business or commercial landlord should be working on installing these things yesterday. Want to attract the young startups to your business park? Provide rows of L2 chargers. Apartment complex wanting to be competitive? Add some chargers, maybe even allow residents to opt in to an additional monthly fee for free charging.

The possibilities are damn near limitless, but the investment has to start now if you want to get ahead of it.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

Too late to get ahead of it. Lead times for charge stations are 4 to 6 months. Coordination with your local utility for upgraded grid power is 12 to 15 months out.

It's not all bad news. The charge stations I see are usually vacant.

 

[techguydave]

Too late to get ahead of it. Lead times for charge stations are 4 to 6 months. Coordination with your local utility for upgraded grid power is 12 to 15 months out.

It's not all bad news. The charge stations I see are usually vacant.

I think it's too late to get completely ahead of it, but we haven't even begun to hit mass market adoption yet. It's still relatively early, so I think that 4 to 6 months will look like days compared to the increased demand over the next 10 years.

 

[Sdctcher]

Let me try to answer...

Charge Speed:
Public charge stations are going the opposite direction toward faster charges. Freewire offers a public station that includes a battery. It connects to the building at L2 level (22kW) and charges an EV at 160. I give you this example to show that there are way to have both. My company just bought our first one and we became a reseller for them. A 160 charge rate IS slow for a medium duty truck. 350 is the next jump.

Charging while on errands:
It doesn't happen.
That would be like putting a gallon of gas in your ICE car at every store simply because they set gallon containers out on the curb. You cannot "hog" a charge station for hours without paying a reduced fee per minute for hogging the space.

It's not necessary.
Why do you imagine you will want to top off while shopping locally when your EV has a week of range? Yes, fast charging is harder on your pack. Charge at home while you sleep. Pay for public charging when you travel beyond your range.

Topping off has less to do with logic than with psychology. People don’t trust that they won’t run out of gas (charge power). Overcoming this fear will help with adoption.

I remember as a poor, young, stupid kid putting a $1 of gas in the car and always having an empty tank. For awhile I carried a gallon jug in the truck.

If the government passes the laws and gives out free or reduced cost public charge stations people will buy more EVs and they will shop where they are installed.

I could be wrong…………

Too late to get ahead of it. Lead times for charge stations are 4 to 6 months. Coordination with your local utility for upgraded grid power is 12 to 15 months out.

It's not all bad news. The charge stations I see are usually vacant.

Not necessarily a bad thing.

EV production will take time to ramp up. People need to buy cars and trucks. The average age now on the road is up to 12 years.

There is no question that in the next 10 years EV adoption will increase and ICE decline. The question is timeline and scale.

I am only saying that over the next 12 months government and business need to make the infrastructure investments that will pay off in the long run. There is a long list of locations that need to be considered as ripe for charge stations, preparations be started, and startups take advantage of the movement.

 

[TRP]

If the grocery store/shopping mall has FREE L2 chargers I will use it. If I have to pay for L2, I'll pass. There's the psychology......of me anyway.

If you really want EVs to get more popular, make it easier for people in apartments/condos/townhomes with no garages or dedicated parking spots to charge. If I couldn't charge at home I would not own my Mach E. There are zero options to charge, L1, L2 or DCFC anywhere near my home. Closest is about 80miles away.

I only use DCFC for traveling.

 

[astricklin]

Absolutely. Any smart business or commercial landlord should be working on installing these things yesterday. Want to attract the young startups to your business park? Provide rows of L2 chargers. Apartment complex wanting to be competitive? Add some chargers, maybe even allow residents to opt in to an additional monthly fee for free charging.

The possibilities are damn near limitless, but the investment has to start now if you want to get ahead of it.

Outside of California, there's so few EVs on the road that there's no incentives for businesses to install chargers

 

[techguydave]

Outside of California, there's so few EVs on the road that there's no incentives for businesses to install chargers

Again, it's not about how many are on the road now, it's about how many will be on the road in the near future. I know long-term thinking is heavily discouraged in this country, but the OEMs are finally getting serious about making more than compliance EVs. The incentive is being able to capitalize on it as it happens, not trying to suddenly compete with hundreds of thousands of simultaneous installs when the boom hits.

But I think we both know that if there's no immediate incentive, they won't do it.

 

[Sdctcher]

If the grocery store/shopping mall has FREE L2 chargers I will use it. If I have to pay for L2, I'll pass. There's the psychology......of me anyway.

If you really want EVs to get more popular, make it easier for people in apartments/condos/townhomes with no garages or dedicated parking spots to charge. If I couldn't charge at home I would not own my Mach E. There are zero options to charge, L1, L2 or DCFC anywhere near my home. Closest is about 80miles away.

I only use DCFC for traveling.

“Free” has different meanings. The internet is free but we pay with giving out our info so business can psych us into buying something. I also would not want to pay a station anymore than a nominal fee but the business would get my money in other ways.

I think this is why I started this thread….where do we want and need stations that installers could make money off of us in increased business. Local government/Chamber of Commerce/Parking garages charge us for parking now - throw in a Level 2 for an hour or so and I will come.

Some forward-looking cities are now mandating new residential builds wired for charging. They understand where we are going.

 

[sotek2345]

Let me try to answer...

Charge Speed:
Public charge stations are going the opposite direction toward faster charges. Freewire offers a public station that includes a battery. It connects to the building at L2 level (22kW) and charges an EV at 160. I give you this example to show that there are way to have both. My company just bought our first one and we became a reseller for them. A 160 charge rate IS slow for a medium duty truck. 350 is the next jump.

Charging while on errands:
It doesn't happen.
That would be like putting a gallon of gas in your ICE car at every store simply because they set gallon containers out on the curb. You cannot "hog" a charge station for hours without paying a reduced fee per minute for hogging the space.

It's not necessary.
Why do you imagine you will want to top off while shopping locally when your EV has a week of range? Yes, fast charging is harder on your pack. Charge at home while you sleep. Pay for public charging when you travel beyond your range.

Yeah - of the options he went through, hotels really make the most sense. We don't even have an EV yet (Mach-e get's built next week), but when planning trips for next year, we are already screening for hotels that offer L2 charging so we can have a full charge in the morning. This is a competitive advantage now, but I suspect will become the defacto standard in time.

Other longer stay / full day type areas (i.e. amusement parks, museums, maybe golf, etc.) could makes sense too as a draw, but I am not sure it would be a significant competitive advantage to them - you go to Disney for Disney, not becuase they have an L2 charger

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

The difference between being young and poor running on E all the time is we all have a gas station hanging on the wall of our garages. We "should" always be leaving the driveway with a full charge.

When I get home in my golf cart, i plug it in. When I get home from riding my e bike, I plug it in. It's just too easy to put it off.

I haven't driven more than 300 miles in a single trip in over a month. Ironically I drove to San Diego to pick up a new motor kit for my latest EV conversion.

 

[shutterbug]

There are really 4 primary use cases for public L2 charging:

1. Apartment/Condo — This one would help improve EV adoptions. If there was a way to secure portable chargers from theft, simply installing 14-50 outlets would be sufficient.
2. Work locations. I am fortunate that my office has an L2 charger. More of those would be helpful.
3. Hotels/Motels. This one is kind of obvious. I don't take a lot of long trips, but for those that do, they would be helpful.
4. Grocery stores/Movie theaters/Restaurants. These are opportunity locations. Especially helpful on super hot days, if your car only cools the battery when it's plugged in or turned on. During this past summer there were more than a few times when my car told the temperature was too hot and I should plug in to keep the battery cooled.

Here in Phoenix, I have seen all of these, both free and non-free. When using those that require payment, always make sure to read the fine print. I had a job a while ago where the cost was $0.03 for the first 3 hours, and then $5 an hour after that.

 

[shutterbug]

The difference between being young and poor running on E all the time is we all have a gas station hanging on the wall of our garages. We "should" always be leaving the driveway with a full charge.

When I get home in my golf cart, i plug it in. When I get home from riding my e bike, I plug it in. It's just too easy to put it off.

I haven't driven more than 300 miles in a single trip in over a month.

When you are young and poor, you may be living in an apartment that does not have "gas station hanging on the wall".

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