Fleet sales manager at dealer says they expect 40% range reduction at 70 mph + , Is that possible?

[jb56]

He’s probably trying to sell you a Powerboost.

I would usually assume this, but they don’t have any to sell. They offered me a pretty great deal to buy my 2019 Lariat, but there is nothing for me to replace it with.

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[jb56]

Tesla's sin here is that they are very optimistic about their range estimates. I'm a Tesla owner myself, so I'm very aware of this. Ford hasn't been taking the same estimate strategies as Tesla so I think it's safe to assume driving at reasonable highway speeds will not negatively affect range.

Edit: To iterate further on the 40 MPH question, there's a difference between averaging that speed and holding it constantly. If the Tesla Model S was staying at a constant 40 MPH the whole time, it'd very likely drive the distance of +40% its rated range but if it had occasionally sped up to 80 MPH I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of loss in efficiency.

Do you have any links to the articles you mentioned earlier?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp36302930/tesla-model-s-long-range-plus-highway-range-testing/

https://insideevs.com/news/339822/h...-tesla-model-s-3-amp-x-at-highway-speeds/amp/

 

[gorwell]

Ford is simulating the EPA cycle which is mixed city and highway speed. The highway speed in this test isnt very fast, I think the average ends up less than 50 mph.

You will definitely get less range the faster you go as the range reduction increases more and more due to aerodynamics.

Based on all the data ford has released so far, they should be competitive with rivian which is getting very good range tests for it's size.

However, no one has done a 70mph test with the r1t. One should come up soon and that would be a good indicator of the highway range of the f150. Minus 5% or so.

 

[EVBill]

I expect as many others have stated that the 300 mile range would be based on running a test similar to what the EPA runs for fuel efficiency certification. Driving at any speed above the average of that test will provide lower fuel economy in both an ICE and EV. In my Chevrolet Volt I would get better than advertised range driving to work that was all 40-45mph with several stoplights. Once I got on the highway and set the cruise at 70 MPH, the range would drop 20% or more from what was advertised. Based on this real world experience, I do not expect the F-150 Lightning to go an entire 300 miles at highway speed, which is one of the reasons I will spend the extra money for the extended range battery.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

The slower speeds help in the city, but so does the regen in stop/go city traffic.

Sort of... With the most efficient braking possible, the regen will essentially offset the battery loss caused by accelerating from a stop. You will never get enough regen to come out ahead after accelerating away from the stop, so physics won't allow you to get more range using regen while doing and starting frequently. Not stopping at all will always be more efficient than stopping and recouping some power with regen.

You will get a fair amount more miles in the MME, and likely any EV for that matter, driving at a constant speed than from stop and go driving. The most efficient speed will vary from vehicle to vehicle, but I can say my MME will do better at any low or moderate speed cruising around than on a street with frequent stops and starts.

Suggesting that regen can increase range compared to cruising at constant speed without braking is like saying the 2nd hill on a roller coaster should be taller than the 1st hill. It won't work because... physics.

In other words... You can't add range using regen, you can only minimize the amount of range lost from stop and go driving by utilizing regen.

 

[Sklith]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp36302930/tesla-model-s-long-range-plus-highway-range-testing/

https://insideevs.com/news/339822/h...-tesla-model-s-3-amp-x-at-highway-speeds/amp/

The first article you posted has them testing at 75 MPH, and the range is still quite good. The second link has them showing 70 MPH tests nearly matching their rated range.

 

[jb56]

The first article you posted has them testing at 75 MPH, and the range is still quite good. The second link has them showing 70 MPH tests nearly matching their rated range.

the second article is just to illustrate the difference in efficiency at different speeds.
If ford’s estimate is based on mixed driving or 50 mph, for example, you would see much lower range at 70, 75, or 80. (All of which are freeway speeds at different places in my state). If the range estimate is based on freeway driving, you could expect far more range in mixed use or lower speed cruising

 

[Diabolical!]

Fleet sales manager at dealer says they expect 40% range reduction at 70 mph

He doesn't know any more than we do.

 

[metroshot]

The slower speeds help in the city, but so does the regen in stop/go city traffic.

^^^ This is correct. ^^^

My PHEV has much better range driving in the city under 45MPH as opposed to the highways/freeways over 50 MPH.

Higher highway speeds mean less range due to less regen and motor inefficiency.

Better range will be driving in the city, bumper to bumper traffic with regen.

If you are sensitive to getting max range (range anxiety), better you get a PHEV.

If you want the maximum EV range per charge, drive it like an old man, Sunday driving, lots of coasting, lots of braking, and leave the cabin heating & cooling off.

 

[sysop]

Ford is simulating the EPA cycle which is mixed city and highway speed. The highway speed in this test isnt very fast, I think the average ends up less than 50 mph.

Actually the EPA testing requirements for MPG and MPGe include high speed testing up to 80MPH. Even the City portion of the testing averages less than 25MPH but reaches a peak of 56MPH. Highway phase of testing reaches 60MPH a few times and averages just under 50MPH. and the high speed phase are hard accelerations and braking to 45 and 70MPH, with a sustained high speed run that peaks at 80. There are phases of the testing that also include running with the air conditioning maxed and operating in cold weather environments. The complete test cycle simulates 44 miles and takes almost 95 minutes to complete. Whatever the EPA range estimates are, they include the full spectrum of driving conditions.

That being said, unlike a gasoline vehicle which is most efficient when cruising a steady speed, an electric vehicle is most efficient when speeds are not constant. Cruising puts a constant drain on the battery and doesn't allow the vehicle to "regen" charge back into the battery.

All trucks have always suffered a lot of wind drag at high speed. Typically a pickup gets the best range when running about 50MPH. I would imagine that the same will stay true whether that is gas or electric.

 

[Sklith]

the second article is just to illustrate the difference in efficiency at different speeds.
If ford’s estimate is based on mixed driving or 50 mph, for example, you would see much lower range at 70, 75, or 80. (All of which are freeway speeds at different places in my state). If the range estimate is based on freeway driving, you could expect far more range in mixed use or lower speed cruising

Don't let that 50 MPH average deceive you, average isn't the same as running a constant speed. In many cases running at 70 MPH constantly on the highway will perform better.

 

[jaykoolzboy]

As someone who's been driving alternative energy automobiles for that last decade (From Nissan Leaft, BMW i3, Honda Clarity FCVs, Hyundai Ioniq and Kona EV), here is my 2 cents.

1. Speed Impact

EV's and FCV are best at 55 - 65 MPH , you will certainly beat any EPA estimates

They are also good at stop N Go traffics due to brake Regens, one of the bright spot for any new EV driver.


2. Climate

They love hotter climates, anything above 70s to mid 90s would do wonder for the efficiency.

Cold weather (anything below 55 ) would instantly kill your range by up to 15 - 20 percent no matter how you drive your EVs.


3. Elevation

one of the most overlooked aspect for EV range aspect , if you live in mountainous area or areas with many Elevation changes , it would roughly reduce your range by up to 10 - 15 percent compare to any Diesel or ICE cars.

In Conclusion, if you live in areas with mostly chilling weathers and lots of elevation changes, please think twice before making any purchases.

 

[Another Ford]

Have to ask out of pure curiosity.... How far will it tow a 7700- 10000 lbs boat (or any trailer)?
From the above details it would seem to be a significant decline.

 

[jaykoolzboy]

Have to ask out of pure curiosity.... How far will it tow a 7700- 10000 lbs boat (or any trailer)?
From the above details it would seem to be a significant decline.

I don't think anyone would provide any precise data on those. Maybe some Tesla Model X owner can have some inputs (I am pretty sure some brave MX owner uses their SUVs to tow boats) . Aside from that not enough data before first wave of F150 Lightning deliveries.

 

[Sklith]

Globally we've already done this thanks to Asia. North America's really lagging behind.

https://www.acea.auto/fuel-pc/fuel-...11-9-petrol-47-5-market-share-full-year-2020/

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