Ford EVs no longer eligible for IRS tax credit as of January 1, 2025

[MountainAlive]

Thinking selfishly for a moment, I’m unsure if this news means my Lightning will be worth less money or more money after Jan 1 2025. Thinking bigger, I really hope Ford doesn’t discontinue the Lightning entirely. If they had trouble selling these WITH the tax credits then I’m not sure how this plays out without those credits. Unless they found a much cheaper source of batteries to offset the loss of tax credits.

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[strahanjen]

OK, now I'm in a hurry. I officially started looking yesterday for a new Flash. Gonna have to get this rolling!

Try Currie Ford in Illinois. They offered me an amazing deal on a Flash back in November, even offered to pay my airfare to Chicago and pick me up from the airport. My local dealer ended up matching their price, so I went with that, and still feel guilty. I’d love to send a customer their way.

 

[Danface]

How sad. America taking huge steps backwards. Fools.

I agree and also add I would love to see another opportunity to take tax policy backwards by taxing very wealthy like it was done in the 1950's and 60's ... but I digress.

 

[Scorpio3d]

I do think that the government needs to get control the runaway spending that has been done by both the D’s and the R’s and the I’s. I do not think this is an area where they should be cutting! Hopefully, if musk is truly going to be looking at government efficiency, there should be plenty of other places where they could find savings to keep this tax credit through 2033 or whenever it was set to expire! We are already so far behind on this tech it makes me.
Make America great again? this is one of the ways!
IMHO

 

[gheron75]

The IRS administers the tax credits based on the law, which in this case is the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. That law covers vehicles in various ways through 2032. The new administration might want to eliminate the tax credits, but they can't do so without congress changing the law. Until that happens, the IRS has to follow the law.

It won't surprise me if this new congress does try to change things with EVs, but a wildcard here is Elon Musk-- he obviously has very strong influence within the new administration, but eliminating EV tax credits would be a huge conflict of interest for Musk, given his majority ownership of Tesla.

 

[StevenC56]

The IRS administers the tax credits based on the law, which in this case is the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. That law covers vehicles in various ways through 2032. The new administration might want to eliminate the tax credits, but they can't do so without congress changing the law. Until that happens, the IRS has to follow the law.

It won't surprise me if this new congress does try to change things with EVs, but a wildcard here is Elon Musk-- he obviously has very strong influence within the new administration, but eliminating EV tax credits would be a huge conflict of interest for Musk, given his majority ownership of Tesla.

Musk thinks taking away the tax credit won't hurt Tesla sale to any degree. He thinks it will only hurt his competition, so he's all for it going away.

 

[GDN]

Musk thinks taking away the tax credit won't hurt Tesla sale to any degree. He thinks it will only hurt his competition, so he's all for it going away.

I'm not sure if that is what he is thinking, it would have a ding on Tesla too, he just knows that he has such a huge lead that it will hurt the others much more than it would hurt him, so in the end he still wins.

I truly don't know the best way for incentives to work if they ever really do at all. I'm a huge Tesla fan, but they manipulated the first one and pocketed almost all of it themselves.

I think at the end of the day, incentives might help drive some adoption, but the consumer is not the winner.

Ford doesn't do dynamic pricing which I think hurts them, too old and sluggish to adapt on the fly, but if anyone watched Tesla when the Model 3 was introduced in late 2017, their first really widely produced car that made EV's for everyone, they adjusted prices down over the first 3 years and they basically pocketed all of the Government incentives paid out. I'm OK with it, but when the sliding scale kicked in and the rebate dropped from 7500 to 3750, they immediately dropped the price of the car close to $3K. When it cut in half again, Tesla also adjusted the price of the car. So Tesla was the one that benefitted, took the money to the bottom line for building giga factories and likely into R&D and building the Supercharger network. I'm not mad about it, it worked.

Ford and the legacy makers are too big and too spread out. Too political internal. The $80K Lariat was stupid mark up. Never will I believe it costs anywhere close to that to build the truck. But what does Ford do with those profits. They get watered down across the company. Too many products that lose money all around the world and Farley is not the leadership that he tried to sell he would be.

It also kind of blows my mind that Honda and Nissan would merge, but GM and Ford should likely be shaking in their boots over it.

 

[broncoaz]

I agree and also add I would love to see another opportunity to take tax policy backwards by taxing very wealthy like it was done in the 1950's and 60's ... but I digress.

The top 1% are already footing 40% of the bill for the entire country, and the bottom half are collectively paying 3%. That doesn’t include what the 1% is paying at the state level too. Looking at the chart below the top 10% pays 72% of the taxes, that income level starts at $167,000.

I would advocate for a flat tax on the bottom end so everyone has some skin in the game. Right now there is little incentive for the bottom 50% to really care about federal spending as they aren’t paying for it.

France’s attempted millionaire tax schemes and generally high taxes has resulted in the rich moving to other countries leaving France in a worse position. I would expect to see the same thing happen here.

https://www.france24.com/en/20150808-france-wealthy-flee-high-taxes-les-echos-figures

Some observers have cited the France’s relatively high tax rate as one of the main reasons rich people are jumping ship in record numbers. Taxes and social security contributions accounted for 45 percent of GDP in 2013, the second highest rate among the OECD group of rich nations, according to a report last year. Only Denmark, with a tax rate of 48.6 percent of GDP, topped France.

Prime Minister David Cameron angered many in France back in June 2012 when he said Britain would “roll out the red carpet” to welcome wealthy French citizens and firms overburdened by the country’s taxes.

The conservative British prime minister was responding to questions over a proposed measure by President François Hollande, a Socialist, to tax incomes over 1 million euros at a 75-percent rate. Hollande’s infamous millionaires’ tax, a key campaign promise meant to cut public debt, was eventually struck down by France’s Constitutional Council.

Another uniquely-French levy, the Solidarity tax on wealth (Impôt de solidarité sur la fortune, or ISF) is also viewed as an attack on France’s wealthy. Introduced by the Socialist Party in 1981, it is an annual direct tax on French residents earning an excess of 1.3 million per year.

 

[gmarcucio]

Talking about encouraging adoption, does it cost more than gasoline at a DC fast charger to charge now? I wouldn't know, I only charge my lightning at home at a cost of about 12 cents a kwh. Other EV owners tell me it costs more than gas to charge. I don't go on long trips much at all and if I did, I wouldn't take the Lightning because I don't want the hassle of charging stations. I'm perfectly happy with my Lightning for the purpose I bought it for which is for the purpose of having a truck and local EV driving. But I would imagine if it does cost more to use a fast charger that would be a big deal for many people on the fence of buying an EV.

 

[Rocket808]

I"m still pissed that I didn't qualify for ANY tax credit for my purchase as my MSRP was well above the 80K cutoff. Why is/was there a cutoff anyway? It's all BS.

I am too.

originally ordered when reservations first became available. Placed order in late 2022. Delays in manufacturing and a fire at the truck plant had me receive my car in April 2023… after the inflation reduction act was implemented.

so I ordered until the assumption of getting the credit

could I have walked away? Yes. Glad I didn’t, but still…

 

[Scorpio3d]

Talking about encouraging adoption, does it cost more than gasoline at a DC fast charger to charge now? I wouldn't know, I only charge my lightning at home at a cost of about 12 cents a kwh. Other EV owners tell me it costs more than gas to charge. I don't go on long trips much at all and if I did, I wouldn't take the Lightning because I don't want the hassle of charging stations. I'm perfectly happy with my Lightning for the purpose I bought it for which is for the purpose of having a truck and local EV driving. But I would imagine if it does cost more to use a fast charger that would be a big deal for many people on the fence of buying an EV.

It all depends on the price of gas, but I think in general it is pretty much a wash i.e. they are about the same cost wise.

 

[Scorpio3d]

The top 1% are already footing 40% of the bill for the entire country, and the bottom half are collectively paying 3%. That doesn’t include what the 1% is paying at the state level too. Looking at the chart below the top 10% pays 72% of the taxes, that income level starts at $167,000.

I would advocate for a flat tax on the bottom end so everyone has some skin in the game. Right now there is little incentive for the bottom 50% to really care about federal spending as they aren’t paying for it.

France’s attempted millionaire tax schemes and generally high taxes has resulted in the rich moving to other countries leaving France in a worse position. I would expect to see the same thing happen here.

https://www.france24.com/en/20150808-france-wealthy-flee-high-taxes-les-echos-figures

Some observers have cited the France’s relatively high tax rate as one of the main reasons rich people are jumping ship in record numbers. Taxes and social security contributions accounted for 45 percent of GDP in 2013, the second highest rate among the OECD group of rich nations, according to a report last year. Only Denmark, with a tax rate of 48.6 percent of GDP, topped France.

Prime Minister David Cameron angered many in France back in June 2012 when he said Britain would “roll out the red carpet” to welcome wealthy French citizens and firms overburdened by the country’s taxes.

The conservative British prime minister was responding to questions over a proposed measure by President François Hollande, a Socialist, to tax incomes over 1 million euros at a 75-percent rate. Hollande’s infamous millionaires’ tax, a key campaign promise meant to cut public debt, was eventually struck down by France’s Constitutional Council.

Another uniquely-French levy, the Solidarity tax on wealth (Impôt de solidarité sur la fortune, or ISF) is also viewed as an attack on France’s wealthy. Introduced by the Socialist Party in 1981, it is an annual direct tax on French residents earning an excess of 1.3 million per year.

You also have to look at the income amount that the bottom 50% made which is roughly </=$47,000.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Talking about encouraging adoption, does it cost more than gasoline at a DC fast charger to charge now? I wouldn't know, I only charge my lightning at home at a cost of about 12 cents a kwh. Other EV owners tell me it costs more than gas to charge. I don't go on long trips much at all and if I did, I wouldn't take the Lightning because I don't want the hassle of charging stations. I'm perfectly happy with my Lightning for the purpose I bought it for which is for the purpose of having a truck and local EV driving. But I would imagine if it does cost more to use a fast charger that would be a big deal for many people on the fence of buying an EV.

For the most part it costs way way more to DCFC charge the to drive an equal gasser. Let’s take an F-150. If you are driving it reasonable on the freeway you should get around 18 mpg. At $3.50 it costs you $0.19 a mile.

The lightning if you are driving reasonable you should be able to average 2.0 kW/mile. At the now “cheap” $0.50 kW, you are looking at $0.25 a mile.

Sadly gas prices are currently lower and kW charges are increasing as they don’t have the steady stream of cars charging they likely need to have a low margin like gas stations do. So I have seen several in the $0.60 range so now we are ta
king a 1/3 more to need to wait for 35 minutes to charge and only travel about a 1/2-2/3 as far as the gasser can go.

So sadly that is why the subsidies need to go to make the cost go down on batteries, reduce charge time, and make more stations.

My family is currently all electric and this next winter my daughters is already ready to move from her Hyundai to a hybrid because the charging experience was enough to put her off of electric only cars, even when she charges for “free” at home.

So yeah the problem for the masses is not the $7,500 credit, it is they don’t like the experience unless they are staying just “local”.

 

[Grease Lightning]

would love to see another opportunity to take tax policy backwards by taxing very wealthy

But why?

I currently am not wealthy but already pay 26% of every dollar I earn to taxes over approximately 100k, then I hope to get even a portion back in April, so maybe my total effective tax rate is closer to 15% of my total income.

What we need to do is rewrite the entire tax code so that all income over say 35k is taxed at a flat 10-15% with no deduction/credits or loopholes.

That will provide correct and appropriate funding, reduce the need for so many people at the government to enforce a very complex and confusing tax code, and make it so people like you an I can invest and prosper in our economy, without needing to hunt for the next credit or say buy X just to tank it for the tax write off from your profitable investments.

 

[Lightning Rod]

I am too.

originally ordered when reservations first became available. Placed order in late 2022. Delays in manufacturing and a fire at the truck plant had me receive my car in April 2023… after the inflation reduction act was implemented.

so I ordered until the assumption of getting the credit

could I have walked away? Yes. Glad I didn’t, but still…

I too reserved the first week of the introduction, and truck also delivered to me in April 2022.

I also am glad that I ordered my Lightning.

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