Ford Service - they can see everything

[Maxx]

You can turn off connectivity in the truck. You will lose features including connected navigation. Truck won't be updated. Then, when you turn it back on, the updates may, or may not be queued up for you.

It sounds like updates will only make specific changes and sequence matters. Are there any option for the owner to reset the whole system and replace the whole thing with the latest version of software? or this is something only dealer can do? Or you think even Service Techs will have to do the sequential update after reset? Just trying to see if there is a back up plan if go off line.

Do you think when you turn off the connectivity, it will still collect data but it resides locally until memory is full or until you connect? I think it should be that way by default (any upload should be with user consent, case by case, not an all or nothing deal). Even if Ford decides not to sell or abuse my data, I doubt they will spend adequate resources to protect it. With hopes that some day, U.S. catches up with Europe when it comes to data privacy laws. I think a number of congress men need to buy these products and get hit before that can happen.

Thanks for a very helpful list of how things work and explanation of the way things are. It really helps me know what I am getting into.

Thanks.

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[RickLightning]

It sounds like updates will only make specific changes and sequence matters. Are there any option for the owner to reset the whole system and replace the whole thing with the latest version of software? or this is something only dealer can do? Or you think even Service Techs will have to do the sequential update after reset? Just trying to see if there is a back up plan if go off line.

Do you think when you turn off the connectivity, it will still collect data but it resides locally until memory is full or until you connect? I think it should be that way by default (any upload should be with user consent, case by case, not an all or nothing deal). Even if Ford decides not to sell or abuse my data, I doubt they will spend adequate resources to protect it. With hopes that some day, U.S. catches up with Europe when it comes to data privacy laws. I think a number of congress men need to buy these products and get hit before that can happen.

Thanks for a very helpful list of how things work and explanation of the way things are. It really helps me know what I am getting into.

Thanks.

I think if you're this paranoid, you shouldn't own any current vehicle, but especially this truck. Everything about it is designed for connectivity. Why would you buy it?

It needs connectivity to navigate, find a charger, diagnosis issues, the list goes on. No, you can't update "offline". And there are many modules that get updated, it isn't a computer with Windows.

Ford is selling your data, as is every car company. So is your cellular company, and every app you have. So is your cable company.

You should sell it.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Unlike Tesla, Ford makes money off those Oil changes which are priority. Your software update can wait until someone takes on the chore of plugging in your EV to quickly fix the problem . I am on Day 5 with my truck sitting in the same spot, tire pressure falling and I’m sure birds pooping all over it. Luckily @Ford Motor Company is on this.

It is a myth that Tesla does not have a profit objective in service. That is based on old statement that Elon made more than ten years ago. They have the highest labor rates and parts margins in the entire automotive industry, and give almost nothing gratis. Their roadside assistance is a disaster, does not cover even basic things like tire repairs (you must pay). Service is a huge profit center for them, and unlike the dealership model, it all flows back to the mothership.

 

[meow]

It's called Connected Vehicle. It debuted in early 2021.

Potentially dumb question: is this something that's available to regular humans?

Besides fault codes, I wonder what else they upload. As stated in another thread, I can watch and see history (bytes in/out) from my network based on a particular wireless client. Yesterday alone it uploaded well over 7 MB of data. I know I had issues with my infotainment (audio very low) so maybe it was sending diagnostic data?

I'm not convinced they're sending diagnostic data over wifi, unless mine's just an introvert (see image). I've never seen more than kb, despite having seen some interesting error codes via Car Scanner and the OBDII connector.

 

[Pioneer74]

Potentially dumb question: is this something that's available to regular humans?

At the risk of being labeled an irregular human, no.

 

[RedLightning86]

Updates mostly use cellular at this point.

Whether you pay for the AT&T hotspot or not is irrelevant to anything except your wallet.

You can turn off connectivity in the truck. You will lose features including connected navigation. Truck won't be updated. Then, when you turn it back on, the updates may, or may not be queued up for you.

No, you cannot see what the truck sends to Ford.

Yes, they know where your truck is at all times, you can easily see that in FordPass, right at the top of the screen.

YOU approved of the data usage when you a) bought the truck and b) enabled the connectivity. If you don't like it, you bought the wrong vehicle, but most modern vehicles are connected all the time.

Yeah, but….

 

[SmoothJ]

Potentially dumb question: is this something that's available to regular humans?



I'm not convinced they're sending diagnostic data over wifi, unless mine's just an introvert (see image). I've never seen more than kb, despite having seen some interesting error codes via Car Scanner and the OBDII connector.

My recent insights didn’t catch anything major either at first. However since I have increased logging verbosity to around 6 months on my networking gear, I can see daily and there are times I get to the MB vs KB.

I also plan on doing some sort of port mirroring and packet capture to see what is being sent/received. I would just need to isolate a AP, create a new SSID, and then do the mirroring. Quite possibly it’s some form of download/upload in tar.gz format.

 

[mr.Magoo]

I also plan on doing some sort of port mirroring and packet capture to see what is being sent/received. I would just need to isolate a AP, create a new SSID, and then do the mirroring. Quite possibly it’s some form of download/upload in tar.gz format.

Are you also planning on setting up your own virtual cell tower so that the car will use that instead of whatever else is out there ? Point is I don't think the truck is waiting to be connected to WiFi to spill all your secrets.

Not sure if it makes people feel better or not, but for what it's worth - I have an issue with my truck (GPS inaccuracy) and Ford wanted to do some "data logging" remotely and I had to sign a consent form plus I myself had to enable some settings "behind the scenes" to allow them do so.

So yeah, while I'm sure they capture anonymous data for R&D if you have the share data enabled, but I don't think they secretly spy on you and sell all the good stuff to the highest bidder. If that's your concern you should immediately sell your smartphone and go back to an old-fashioned flip-phone without apps.

 

[meow]

My recent insights didn’t catch anything major either at first. However since I have increased logging verbosity to around 6 months on my networking gear, I can see daily and there are times I get to the MB vs KB.

I also plan on doing some sort of port mirroring and packet capture to see what is being sent/received. I would just need to isolate a AP, create a new SSID, and then do the mirroring. Quite possibly it’s some form of download/upload in tar.gz format.

I'm actually less interested in knowing what the data is and more why following the recommendation of "plug the thing in and connect it to wifi after driving it for 30+ min" hasn't made any odds for me on the software update side. I'm still on 3.5.4 and they're telling me to take it to the dealer if I don't want to wait for some amount of time they can't give me any insights on.

 

[SmoothJ]

Are you also planning on setting up your own virtual cell tower so that the car will use that instead of whatever else is out there ? Point is I don't think the truck is waiting to be connected to WiFi to spill all your secrets.

Not sure if it makes people feel better or not, but for what it's worth - I have an issue with my truck (GPS inaccuracy) and Ford wanted to do some "data logging" remotely and I had to sign a consent form plus I myself had to enable some settings "behind the scenes" to allow them do so.

So yeah, while I'm sure they capture anonymous data for R&D if you have the share data enabled, but I don't think they secretly spy on you and sell all the good stuff to the highest bidder. If that's your concern you should immediately sell your smartphone and go back to an old-fashioned flip-phone without apps.

I had a slight advantage in my case as my cell connectivity is pretty bad where I live (ATT). So I believe it would use the Wifi no matter what. However all that bytes in/out need to account for something as its not just DHCP relate traffic. I personally don't really care about the data, its just more about a curiosity.

I'm actually less interested in knowing what the data is and more why following the recommendation of "plug the thing in and connect it to wifi after driving it for 30+ min" hasn't made any odds for me on the software update side. I'm still on 3.5.4 and they're telling me to take it to the dealer if I don't want to wait for some amount of time they can't give me any insights on.

Before this truck, I had a 2021 F150 PB and I never received an update. I looked at OASIS and saw I had some sort of connectivity issues, but I had to bring it in anyway for a update to the rear camera. Once that service was done, I was getting update after update till I traded it in. So maybe thats whats going on in your case too.

 

[F150ROD]

Update: The keypad has finally arrived for installation. Going in Monday to hopefully get it knocked out in one day so I don’t have to drive a broke down loaner from Enterprise.

 

[Maxx]

Has anyone been able to use "Manage Privacy Settings" in the app or anywhere on the website to lower the dial on data sharing? There are some choices in the truck for connected services at the cost of some functionality but I am having a hard time getting to one place that I can tell them don't collect and share my data.

Please no speeches on how I should throw my cell phone out or I bought the wrong truck. I just need tips from other people that may be as "paranoid" as I am.

 

[SmoothJ]

I just noticed that the truck downloaded 39.4MB today, so hopefully I get some sort of update soon.

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