Ford's Lightning; How they ruined a great product.

[ivan256]

Part of the issue is the lack of communication between your dealer and Ford.

If given the option of buying your truck through your dealer, instead of direct from Ford (as it should be at this point), would you really still want to play with the uninformed middle man?

You're not cutting the dealers much slack. But you're still cutting them more slack than they deserve. I know for a fact that the dealer I reserved with had WAY more information than they let on. They flat lied about what they knew and did.

The second dealer that I signed a purchase agreement with ALSO knew more than they said about delivery status. And they lied.

The third dealer - who I actually bought the truck from - lied too, but about the financing and the remainder of the delivery process.

They're all mostly unaware that we can get information behind their backs through leaks and various tracking systems and their own employees saying too much unintentionally....

Gervais, Sentry, IRA. How many is a person supposed to try to buy something from before they find a good one? They're not reputable businesses with a few bad eggs. They're a pile of garbage that contains an occasional gem.

With a new product like the Lightning, I appreciate having a local dealer I can have a relationship with, and that I can turn to if I have problems. I've read some of the horror stories of Iowa-based Tesla owners who have waited weeks or even months to get their cars serviced after an incident. Their vehicles have to be towed for hundreds of miles to the closest service center, where they wait on parts procurement and servicing, before eventual return to the customer, with no real loaner program or ability to visit the service center to inquire after their vehicle's progress. Is a local dealer worth the 8% you cite? In my view, yes, if you can find a decent dealer with a good service department. Should Lightning customers be offered a direct delivery option, with no dealer interaction? Sure, except given my earlier comments about Ford customer service, I don't think that those customers would be very happy with the result. :-/

I have a few minor issues with my Lightning, but it hasn't been in for service yet. There are no dealers near me I can trust to bring it to. I'm having a real difficult time seeing how that's any better than what Tesla owners deal with. Maybe I'm better off if my truck breaks catastrophically? Great....

We can't end car dealer's protected status soon enough.

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[JoebeachNH]

My local dealer of choice (a bad choice at that) added a $10k ADM to the Lariat ER I ordered on line through Ford with no involvement from this dealer whatso ever. Still waiting for my delivery but the first lightning delivered to this dealer, has been sitting on his lot for almost 3 months, with the same $10K ADM, the original customer having walked away from it. As far as I'm concerned, the dealer can park mine right next to that one and I'll wait for a Silverado!!!

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

TLDR; Ford had the opportunity to capture a Market with their revolutionary product, they have let everyone including their employees down.

It's starting to be reported that most, if not all, of reservations have gone out. My thoughts are strictly geared to the consumer market (as Ford treats consumer and fleet seperately, and purchase decisions for consumer and business are vastly different).

We knew the that all the 150k+ reservations weren't going to convert and teasing people with the $40k price tag bit Ford hard (a large portion of those reservations were $40k Pro or nothing...that's what I was, I know I got extremely lucky).

Ford has now exhausted their reservation list, pissed alot of potential customers off, and now have to deal with marketing the Lightning to a significantly higher income demographic than originally anticipated. What was the truck of the year, the best buy in EV, and a cornerstone for the forward progress of Ford into a new era, is quickly becoming (unfairly) an afterthought.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Ford Motor Company has made a fantastic product. The upper management (and CEO) have ruined the positive momentum that the core of Ford (engineers and manufacturers) have built.

In the end, Ford has converted less than a fifth of the reservations they recieved. How everyone associated with the marketing, management, and oversight of the Lightning consumer platform is still employed is beyond surprising.

Blaming market conditions, material availability, and basically anything other than themselves is just a bunch of tomfoolery. Other EV makers are making a profit on every vehicle sold (Ford loses money on every EV sold), some manufacturers are making a ridiculous profit.

To be clear; my 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro I own is the best vehicle I have owned/driven (and I've driven alot). That's right, the base F-150 Lightning model has beaten the ICE F-150s, Silverados, Rams, Teslas, Rivian, and various performance focused cars I've owned/rented/driven for extended periods of time. To have that great of a product, yet have a process that leaves such a negative taste in a consumers mouth, says everything Ford needs to know about what an utter failure of management and direction this company currently has.

@Ford Motor Company If you read this (doubtful)...please know: The Engineers, Developers, and Manufacturers should be applauded for a brilliant product. Ford should feel privledged to retain those employees through their gross mismanagement. The direction, marketing, and oversight of upper management has been an utter failure. You have let your employees and customers down. You have stained your brand. It's time for damage control. Fix your internal issues and stop passing that cost to your customers. They have spoken, they aren't willing to take it anymore.

I know, opinions are like @$$hole$, everyone has one. This is just mine.

I'm thrilled with my first-day-ordered Lariat ER. It's an amazing truck and I love it.

 

[Pioneer74]

My local dealer of choice (a bad choice at that) added a $10k ADM to the Lariat ER I ordered on line through Ford with no involvement from this dealer whatso ever. Still waiting for my delivery but the first lightning delivered to this dealer, has been sitting on his lot for almost 3 months, with the same $10K ADM, the original customer having walked away from it. As far as I'm concerned, the dealer can park mine right next to that one and I'll wait for a Silverado!!!

Good call. The production unit chairman of the DTP/REVC let it slip in a Facebook post that there will be a significant line speed increase at the end of July. I forsee a lot of inventory being available by the end of the year. Anybody that pays an ADM will be very sorry.

 

[j150]

My dealer is Westlie Ford in Washougal, Washington and was very good.
No jerking around at all.

 

[Bills R Electric]

TLDR; Ford had the opportunity to capture a Market with their revolutionary product, they have let everyone including their employees down.

It's starting to be reported that most, if not all, of reservations have gone out. My thoughts are strictly geared to the consumer market (as Ford treats consumer and fleet seperately, and purchase decisions for consumer and business are vastly different).

We knew the that all the 150k+ reservations weren't going to convert and teasing people with the $40k price tag bit Ford hard (a large portion of those reservations were $40k Pro or nothing...that's what I was, I know I got extremely lucky).

Ford has now exhausted their reservation list, pissed alot of potential customers off, and now have to deal with marketing the Lightning to a significantly higher income demographic than originally anticipated. What was the truck of the year, the best buy in EV, and a cornerstone for the forward progress of Ford into a new era, is quickly becoming (unfairly) an afterthought.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Ford Motor Company has made a fantastic product. The upper management (and CEO) have ruined the positive momentum that the core of Ford (engineers and manufacturers) have built.

In the end, Ford has converted less than a fifth of the reservations they recieved. How everyone associated with the marketing, management, and oversight of the Lightning consumer platform is still employed is beyond surprising.

Blaming market conditions, material availability, and basically anything other than themselves is just a bunch of tomfoolery. Other EV makers are making a profit on every vehicle sold (Ford loses money on every EV sold), some manufacturers are making a ridiculous profit.

To be clear; my 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro I own is the best vehicle I have owned/driven (and I've driven alot). That's right, the base F-150 Lightning model has beaten the ICE F-150s, Silverados, Rams, Teslas, Rivian, and various performance focused cars I've owned/rented/driven for extended periods of time. To have that great of a product, yet have a process that leaves such a negative taste in a consumers mouth, says everything Ford needs to know about what an utter failure of management and direction this company currently has.

@Ford Motor Company If you read this (doubtful)...please know: The Engineers, Developers, and Manufacturers should be applauded for a brilliant product. Ford should feel privledged to retain those employees through their gross mismanagement. The direction, marketing, and oversight of upper management has been an utter failure. You have let your employees and customers down. You have stained your brand. It's time for damage control. Fix your internal issues and stop passing that cost to your customers. They have spoken, they aren't willing to take it anymore.

I know, opinions are like @$$hole$, everyone has one. This is just mine.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Your post is spot on. My ordering process, through the dealer, has been awful. Taken forever, poor communication, lack of knowledge, etc.

It should be acknowledged technically each dealer is an independent contractor, and not part of the Ford Motor Company though.

Now my build date was supposed to be 2/3/23 and I have not heard anything, and the dealer knows nothing.

The Tesla CyberTruck will sell every truck they can build starting in 2024. Probably for years. Their buying experience is 10X better.

 

[RickE]

It was reported, multiple sources, that FoMoCo loses roughly $750 on each EV sale. Ford ranks at the bottom, which is why I claim they are grossly mismanaged at the top. It's not the engineers, manufacturers, or 99% of the employees.

(Here is one source after a 10 second Google search: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charted-teslas-unrivaled-profit-margins/)

That loss per vehicle isn't completely tied to dealers, it's a larger indication of the company's mismanagement which was what my original post was about. It delved into the dealer issues I mentioned.

Dealer's sales departments are not "selling" these trucks. They are delivering them to customers who ordered them, often with little dealer help.

The few new vehicles they get on their lot due to FoMoCo sending dealer stock, or canceled orders have been marked up by quite a few (I know not all) dealers which FoMoCo gets no piece of. These dealers also are not buying local ads for the Lightning, they don't need to, yet they still get to recoup marketing expenditures on each "sale".

Having a previous background in marketing and media, I know what these dealers get as far as marketing allowances from Ford for their sales departments. I also know what some of them spend. It's not surprising to realize these 2 things aren't equal.

The dealership model is obsolete and needs to be reformed. Tesla has shown it can be done. Buying a new vehicle from any manufacture’s dealer is usually a nightmare. They treat you like you are an idiot and really don’t know very much about the car you are buying when you ask them questions. They try to screw you every which way they can. From the price you pay, to any available rebates or financing the car. I see dealers as nothing more than a ticket scalper. Like a scalper, they take full advantage of a “hot ticket” and mark it up accordingly. If I was Ford and I was losing a reported $750 per EV made and after spending billions on R&D and factories and the dealers are making a profit of $15K to 25K on each EV, I would be very upset. Just like ticket scalpers are making more money, per ticket sold, than Taylor Swift.

 

[gregoryhcain]

My experience has been superb. Yes the wait was long, 17 months, but my dealer was fantastic in every phase of the sales process. Not a penny more than MSRP, installed extras at no cost for labor and during the order process kept me abreast of all delays and how best to get around them. I am almost 70, and could have bought any vehicle I wanted. I bought this one and it is the best vehicle I have ever owned…by far, with the best factory support of any including all my cars. No regrets here…

 

[FordLightningMan]

There's two points being made in this thread that contradict each other. (1) Ford loses money on every EV sold. (2) If the dealers are cut out, we'll save 8% on our trucks.

In a hypothetical world where dealers could be cut out, why wouldn't Ford corporate just improve their margins by keeping the price the same? Wouldn't they rather sell profitable EVs, than sell at a lower price for a loss directly to consumers?

 

[Zprime29]

Gunn Honda (an unrelated business) has restored my faith that there are dealers in business to make money and keep customers long-term by only selling them what they need and want.

We bought our Honda Pilot from Gunn, before we moved to Tucson. It's not even close comparing our experience there to every other dealership I've been to. They are absolutely the best. I miss San Antonio more than I thought I would.

The dealer I bought from, while charging a mark up that I probably shouldn't have paid, was very helpful...if you called them. They seriously need to hire some IT, cuz email communication is just awful. Went a month without replies to email or text. Finally contacted the sales manager and I finally have some resolution in progress.

It's been 7 weeks since purchase, I'm still waiting for my charge station pro to ship. Ford's other biggest mistake was partnering with SunRun. I'm so glad I learned about Qmerit from @tommolog . They've been great to work with for my home install (Which again, is just waiting on the charger).

 

[Jarratt]

TLDR; Ford had the opportunity to capture a Market with their revolutionary product, they have let everyone including their employees down.

It's starting to be reported that most, if not all, of reservations have gone out. My thoughts are strictly geared to the consumer market (as Ford treats consumer and fleet seperately, and purchase decisions for consumer and business are vastly different).

We knew the that all the 150k+ reservations weren't going to convert and teasing people with the $40k price tag bit Ford hard (a large portion of those reservations were $40k Pro or nothing...that's what I was, I know I got extremely lucky).

Ford has now exhausted their reservation list, pissed alot of potential customers off, and now have to deal with marketing the Lightning to a significantly higher income demographic than originally anticipated. What was the truck of the year, the best buy in EV, and a cornerstone for the forward progress of Ford into a new era, is quickly becoming (unfairly) an afterthought.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Ford Motor Company has made a fantastic product. The upper management (and CEO) have ruined the positive momentum that the core of Ford (engineers and manufacturers) have built.

In the end, Ford has converted less than a fifth of the reservations they recieved. How everyone associated with the marketing, management, and oversight of the Lightning consumer platform is still employed is beyond surprising.

Blaming market conditions, material availability, and basically anything other than themselves is just a bunch of tomfoolery. Other EV makers are making a profit on every vehicle sold (Ford loses money on every EV sold), some manufacturers are making a ridiculous profit.

To be clear; my 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro I own is the best vehicle I have owned/driven (and I've driven alot). That's right, the base F-150 Lightning model has beaten the ICE F-150s, Silverados, Rams, Teslas, Rivian, and various performance focused cars I've owned/rented/driven for extended periods of time. To have that great of a product, yet have a process that leaves such a negative taste in a consumers mouth, says everything Ford needs to know about what an utter failure of management and direction this company currently has.

@Ford Motor Company If you read this (doubtful)...please know: The Engineers, Developers, and Manufacturers should be applauded for a brilliant product. Ford should feel privledged to retain those employees through their gross mismanagement. The direction, marketing, and oversight of upper management has been an utter failure. You have let your employees and customers down. You have stained your brand. It's time for damage control. Fix your internal issues and stop passing that cost to your customers. They have spoken, they aren't willing to take it anymore.

I know, opinions are like @$$hole$, everyone has one. This is just mine.

I bought my dealer's mannequin (@MSRP) after agreeing to let them keep it on the floor for six months.

I have gotten to know all the higher-ups and am on good terms with the Service Manager & his two Lightening techs. Having said that, I am astounded by how poorly the mothership supports the dealers. My truck has had software issues for a while. The techs on the shop floor have not been able to get anything other than a case #.

I've never been a Ford customer before. I feel fortunate to have a dealership that is trying its best, but is in something of a wilderness.

 

[bloominguez]

TLDR; Ford had the opportunity to capture a Market with their revolutionary product, they have let everyone including their employees down.

It's starting to be reported that most, if not all, of reservations have gone out. My thoughts are strictly geared to the consumer market (as Ford treats consumer and fleet seperately, and purchase decisions for consumer and business are vastly different).

We knew the that all the 150k+ reservations weren't going to convert and teasing people with the $40k price tag bit Ford hard (a large portion of those reservations were $40k Pro or nothing...that's what I was, I know I got extremely lucky).

Ford has now exhausted their reservation list, pissed alot of potential customers off, and now have to deal with marketing the Lightning to a significantly higher income demographic than originally anticipated. What was the truck of the year, the best buy in EV, and a cornerstone for the forward progress of Ford into a new era, is quickly becoming (unfairly) an afterthought.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Ford Motor Company has made a fantastic product. The upper management (and CEO) have ruined the positive momentum that the core of Ford (engineers and manufacturers) have built.

In the end, Ford has converted less than a fifth of the reservations they recieved. How everyone associated with the marketing, management, and oversight of the Lightning consumer platform is still employed is beyond surprising.

Blaming market conditions, material availability, and basically anything other than themselves is just a bunch of tomfoolery. Other EV makers are making a profit on every vehicle sold (Ford loses money on every EV sold), some manufacturers are making a ridiculous profit.

To be clear; my 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro I own is the best vehicle I have owned/driven (and I've driven alot). That's right, the base F-150 Lightning model has beaten the ICE F-150s, Silverados, Rams, Teslas, Rivian, and various performance focused cars I've owned/rented/driven for extended periods of time. To have that great of a product, yet have a process that leaves such a negative taste in a consumers mouth, says everything Ford needs to know about what an utter failure of management and direction this company currently has.

@Ford Motor Company If you read this (doubtful)...please know: The Engineers, Developers, and Manufacturers should be applauded for a brilliant product. Ford should feel privledged to retain those employees through their gross mismanagement. The direction, marketing, and oversight of upper management has been an utter failure. You have let your employees and customers down. You have stained your brand. It's time for damage control. Fix your internal issues and stop passing that cost to your customers. They have spoken, they aren't willing to take it anymore.

I know, opinions are like @$$hole$, everyone has one. This is just mine.

Good post. I had a reservation and canceled it along the way. I admit, I was teased by the price. I was in the "Pro or XLT or nothing" camp. For my use case, just commuting, I don't want all the bells and whistles.

When my number was called I saw that the price had gone up something like $15k and that the Pro and XLT trims were not available, so the price increase was a LOT more. Just went to www.ford.com and see that the Pro is now up almost to $60,000, for example. Lariat, the lowest trim I could order, is almost $76k. So that's almost doubling the price they teased me with. No thank you.

It's a very nice truck. I got a chance to drive it at my nearest dealership (not sure why people think they can't test drive one, they seem to be available on lots now). Would love to have one, but there are other cars I like, too.

Your basic point is 100% correct, Ford killed the momentum they had. In my case, I've since bought two other vehicles. I'll continue to enjoy gas guzzling ICEs for the time being, there will be plenty of EVs to choose from in the future.


I would also add: The Lightning ordering process was WAYYYYYY better than trying to order a Bronco. If you think the Lightning process was bad, just know that it could have been much, much worse.

 

[MannyG20]

This thread has devolved into a ‘good vs bad dealer’ experience and strayed from the OPs most important point - that being that Corporate Ford has killed the momentum they had when the Lightning was announced. If it is true that the take rate from the original reservations is only 20% then we should be seeing daily firing notices coming from Ford.
like many I cancelled my reservation because I was in the Pro or XLT group, but the price increases took me out entirely.
@bloominguez - I am the very happy owner of a Bronco. I would say that the ordering process for both vehicles was bad. In my opinion Ford is 0 for 2 and has probably lost a lot of customers from both launches.

 

[bloominguez]

This thread has devolved into a ‘good vs bad dealer’ experience and strayed from the OPs most important point - that being that Corporate Ford has killed the momentum they had when the Lightning was announced. If it is true that the take rate from the original reservations is only 20% then we should be seeing daily firing notices coming from Ford.
like many I cancelled my reservation because I was in the Pro or XLT group, but the price increases took me out entirely.
@bloominguez - I am the very happy owner of a Bronco. I would say that the ordering process for both vehicles was bad. In my opinion Ford is 0 for 2 and has probably lost a lot of customers from both launches.

+1. Whether dealers are good or bad, Ford made choices that killed the excitement from the launch.

I'm sure people who ordered Mach Es and Mavericks would say those processes were also bad. I would guess Ford is 0 for {however many times they've tried this}. Maybe their dealership agreements make it impossible to do cleanly.

The fact that the reservations were only $100 and fully refundable led many (including me) to give it a shot. I ended up getting a Bronco (which I am also very happy with--but it took 676 days), but did not get an early enough Lightning reservation for the money to make sense. Doesn't bother me, I got another very nice vehicle (in addition to the Bronco). Ford doesn't owe me a Lightning and I don't owe them my business.

Not sure if it makes sense to require a $500 or $1000 deposit, to get a firmer idea of demand, but a $100 refundable deposit doesn't give a signal of how many people really want *that* vehicle.

 

[Replika]

Having just sold mine, the days of flipping are long gone. Even with 2022 pricing and the full tax credit I ate $1/mile and that was the best offer for months. Not complaining about that though - vehicles are heavily depreciating assets. Just do not pay ADM!

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