I'm Curious, How Many People Are Considering Not Taking Delivery?

[carrillj]

Wow, that's pretty lucky that the dealer is still willing to hold it for you without a deposit/reservation.

Technically the dealer owns your truck until you take delivery.

I could be wrong, but if the dealer cancels prior to shipment, then the truck can be rerouted to another dealer from my understanding. Right now it’s word of mouth that I’m not taking delivery, but all online documentation has my name attached to it. The dealer said I might have to submit the cancellation in writing once delivered then they will take possession. Again, this is just from what I’ve gathered but I have no behind the scenes facts about how they handle these types of situations.

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[TaxmanHog]

The dealer said I might have to submit the cancellation in writing once delivered then they will take possession. Again, this is just from what I’ve gathered but I have no behind the scenes facts about how they handle these types of situations.

This will help the dealer avoid a black mark for posting an order and not delivering to the original order maker.

The one issue that Ford needs to improve upon is the production logistics when in process inventory gets stuck in a holding pattern, throughout the year we've seen several occasions where FIFO failed and LIFO ruled while "missing chips" were holding up a build. Getting the oldest inventory rolling to the rail yard needs to be a 2023 priority at the Rouge and all other Ford factories.

 

[Yabra2]

Other than cancelling, is anybody trying to make some deal with the dealer anything around discount on interest rate (Ford offered recently an interest offer on regular f150), or other things?

I am sure dealers already got many cancellation due to losing the tax credit. In addition, selling these trucks at markup will be harder in 23..

Generally, as much as I want the truck, I am not willing to pay full price for a gen1 EV without tax credit, so I am ready to walk away if I got no offer. Even Tesla used to offer free charging for life on their early sales. They even dropped car prices once they finished the tax credit!

 

[TheBigBezo]

I'm not jazzed about interest rates, higher price, lack of credit, and other features. I have the benefit of living somewhere very warm, so I will never need a heated steering wheel. At this point, my plan is to take delivery on it, pay down the principal quickly, and trade it in for a Ranger EV when hopefully one gets made.

 

[jb56]

I just got a refund of my order and reservation deposit and gave up my Lariat ER that arrived this week. Very disappointed, but it was the best decision for our family. I think I would have gone through with the purchase had I made it in the first set of waves. But the extra 9-10 month delay made us move in a different direction. It certainly didn't help that both the price and interest rates went up. A $1,300 a month payment on a pickup (even an amazing futuristic pickup) is a tough pill to swallow.

I'm excited to see how the electric truck market evolves and improves over the next few years.

 

[shocker]

Truck built mid December with 2022 delivery estimated, but now delayed into 2023 thereby losing the old tax credit. I noticed about a week ago the Window Sticker for my VIN has become unavailable. Wonder if Ford is up to something with a price revision. I know that's an extremely optimistic take over just the computer system undergoing maintenance. But one can always hope.

 

[carrillj]

I bet Ford delayed the production and shipment of locked in MY22 pricing knowing that people would cancel their order since they would lose out in the EV tax credit. That way they can sell it for full (and markup) pricing. We’ll it worked, because I canceled my order, but in return they lost a lifelong Ford customer. I will never purchase another Ford vehicle.

I will have to take back my ignorant statement and let everyone know that the truck actually arrived on Monday before the EV tax credit deadline. Once the truck finally left Detroit it arrived incredibly fast to southern Cali which seemed like a week. Even though I canceled my order, the dealer was generous enough to offer it to me. I had already decided to move on and wait for when I actually have a need for a new vehicle, so I passed on their considerate offer. Ford is good in my book and I still love my Mustang.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

My truck had a Nov 7th built date and as of today, it’s still at the factory waiting shipment. Some trucks with the same trim level (Lariat) we’re built weeks after mine and have shipped. So conspiracy theory or not, I have every reason to speculate Ford Corp or dealer behind the scenes actions.

And for the record, I did receive my reservation and deposit back, but the truck is still technically mine for the taking which is why I’m even remotely interested in still talking about it. Once it gets delivered to the dealer is when I will have to officially buy or cancel it. Will I change my mind? Probably not, but with no money to lose, I’m in control. Until then, I think I can freely discuss the topic since I’ve have had vested interest for years and should be allowed to come up with a conspiracy or two.

You should search the forums for Area 51. Before Ford raised the price, trucks have been built and placed in limbo on multiple ramps.

Heck, folks that rolled off the line the same day were separated by weeks despite going to the same region. Then once it ships…man that is another animal. Then it depends on which rail carrier you’re on, even on the same rail to the same destination 12 hours apart the travel time could vary by as much as a week.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Truck built mid December with 2022 delivery estimated, but now delayed into 2023 thereby losing the old tax credit. I noticed about a week ago the Window Sticker for my VIN has become unavailable. Wonder if Ford is up to something with a price revision. I know that's an extremely optimistic take over just the computer system undergoing maintenance. But one can always hope.

Sometimes they make revisions of the trace codes at the top margin, but not regarding any of the pricing.

 

[chl]

It seems like the frequency of negative posts is trending upwards lately so I wanted to start a new thread where we can all discuss our thoughts on the topic. Maybe get a better consensus in a central location rather than random scattered comments here and there on other threads.

It seems like Ford has really botched this EV thing which I was afraid may happen. The firmware is a mess (especially considering they've had the Mach-E to use for firmware research & development) and is nowhere near ready for prime time even with the super basic functionality they're launching with. The absolute least they could do is have those limited features work properly. They went with some design choices that only make sense if "this is the way we've always done it" is the reason which is the absolute worst reason to do something. They keep removing features and offering pennies on the dollar to what it would cost to add it back later... if possible. Not to mention what an absolutely clown show the entire reservation/order process has been that punished an early adopter like me (I had mine secured minutes after they opened reservations) to the tune of nearly $20k between the truck and tax incentives.

Now it seems like maybe Ford is just removing features w/o even notifying people let alone crediting them anything for doing. Some have reported their side mirrors not having heat w/o any advance notification let alone credit. On top of that, the Ford website is a joke and it seems as though their app is just as bad with endless unhappy people even (again) given the limited nature of the features it has.

In addition, I contacted my dealer a few weeks ago because I wanted to remove the mobile connector given the fact that 1) I don't need it and 2) I've been reading a lot of negativity about it's reliability. I also wanted to add the factory bed liner since it was no longer delaying production. They were roughly the same price so I figured great, I'll get a truck with more of what I want and less of what I don't for about the same price. Dealer makes the adjustment and sends new paperwork that I sign and return. The Ford.com website shows the changes on my configuration page so I'm good, right? Wrong. I get my VIN and window sticker the other day and I guess the factory didn't get the memo because the the mobile power cord is listed but no bed liner.

...here's what the website currently shows:

Given how bad the website has been I trust the sticker more. This is the way it's going to be built regardless of what the website says... sadly.

I had hoped that a company that was as established and had as deep of pockets seemingly as Ford would take what the segment had already done and improve upon it to make a better product. Instead, it seems more like they're trying to copy what others have done for years now but in a worse fashion and added zero innovation to the list. Is Ford really that far behind the times? The more I consider this the less I want to reward bad behavior out of principal.

Add all of the outside factors such as the used car market and the economic uncertainty and... I just don't know that I'm ready to take delivery in a month or so. My build date is coming up a week from Monday which puts my at taking delivery likely end of January or February. All I can think of is how much of a stressful, confusing and unenjoyable process this has been. Easily the worst car buying experience I've had out of many dozens in my lifetime.

When you get down to it, I was excited to try out the latest EV offering from Ford. For years people had called me a Tesla fanboi because that's what I own and I'm quick to point out how good the cars are. I would often respond that it was just the best option out there and that's why I was a fan and if anyone else made something even as close as what Tesla offered I'd buy it. That's why I was excited to secure my reservation on a Lightning. My thought was that if an established company like Ford entered the same market as a perky little upstart they'd create something that would make us all forget the other startup ever existed. Instead, all it's done is show me just how good these Teslas really are by comparison. I know they're not perfect and I'm the first one to point out the cons but, to put it flatly, this offering from Ford and how they've handled it sucks.

It was one thing when I knew I could take delivery and even if I hated it (which I really didn't anticipate being the case) I knew I'd break even and possibly even make a few bucks for my efforts. Instead, the used car market (among other things) has tanked. I'm pretty confident that if I took delivery today and decided I hated it within a few months I'd probably lose money on it. Coming from that perspective I'm sure I'm more critical now but it just genuinely feels like each update that has come along since I reserved my truck has been negative. There hasn't been any positive at all and at some point enough is enough. I just feel like the universe is telling me time and again to not buy this truck.

The outside factors are a little bit heavier now than they were when I initially reserved the truck too and I'd would much rather have the $80k in the bank just in case then in another depreciating asset sitting in my garage that gets underutilized.

I know that's a word wall so if you're still reading... you da real hero.

I guess I just wanted to vent a little but also have an open and honest conversation because it genuinely feels like more and more of the posts I'm seeing are of similar mindset. I guess the thing I hate the worst is that this Lightning will be MANY people's first experience with an EV and I think that lots of them will come away with a negative feeling overall for EVs even though it's just the particular EV the drove. It feels like history repeating again where the legacy manufacturers can say "We tried to give you that but nobody wanted it" and the numbers support it. Conspiracy theory aside, I just wish Ford would invest the resources in this venture to make an honest go if it rather than releasing something to market that probably wouldn't even be an alpha test let alone a beta. I'm just not thinking I want to pay $80k to be a beta tester for Ford's undercooked idea.

Thoughts?

I cancelled my reservation yesterday for a number of reasons.

Probably the most important was the price jump over the announced starting price of under $40k to over $50k.

I got the invite for a MY23. Sticker shock! No Pros available and within a couple days, no XLTs either. $15k+ extra for an extended range battery that adds less than 100 miles range from 230m to 320m? Heating steering wheel not standard?

Saw some MY22 for sale locally but most were loaded $80k and up Lariat models after ADMs of $10k to $20k over MSRP. I found an XLT a couple hundred miles away, but it was priced at over $63k with an ADM of $7,500.

The mismatch between battery size and range. A battery that size could have provided better range if Ford had only thought about it a bit more and done things like 1) reduced the drag by building a more aerodynamic body shape, and 2) reduced the weight with composite materials.

Recent reports of battery failures on Lightnings with low mileage, not cause by any mishandling or misuse, with the indefinite time for battery replacement under warranty. I have had my Nissan Leaf for over 11 years and never had an issue with anything except once the 12v battery died due to the car sitting too long while I was a way for 6 weeks - it's on a trickle charger now.
Maybe the failures were due to a combination of using fast chargers, which are known to reduce battery lifetime, and battery manufacturing issues making them more susceptible to this type of issue, but no one knows yet.

An EV truck should be better able to compete with an ICE truck in price and range and reliability than the Lightning.

EV batteries are NOT inherently problematic - Tesla and others have shown that.
And EVs have much simpler mechanical systems when compared to ICEs- battery, electric motor(s), brakes - and electrical components - inverter/charging circuits, controllers. All modern cars seem to have computers, so that should not be an issue.

I think they ( @Ford Motor Company ) will get better at it as other competitors come to market in the next year or so - Cybertruck and Silverado are almost there. Both offer more range than the Lightning and a lower entry price, assuming things don't change.

They have to do better.
They better do better.

 

[chl]

I cancelled my reservation yesterday for a number of reasons.

Probably the most important was the price jump over the announced starting price of under $40k to over $50k.

I got the invite for a MY23. Sticker shock! No Pros available and within a couple days, no XLTs either. $15k+ extra for an extended range battery that adds less than 100 miles range from 230m to 320m? Heating steering wheel not standard?

Saw some MY22 for sale locally but most were loaded $80k and up Lariat models after ADMs of $10k to $20k over MSRP. I found an XLT a couple hundred miles away, but it was priced at over $63k with an ADM of $7,500.

The mismatch between battery size and range. A battery that size could have provided better range if Ford had only thought about it a bit more and done things like 1) reduced the drag by building a more aerodynamic body shape, and 2) reduced the weight with composite materials.

Recent reports of battery failures on Lightnings with low mileage, not cause by any mishandling or misuse, with the indefinite time for battery replacement under warranty. I have had my Nissan Leaf for over 11 years and never had an issue with anything except once the 12v battery died due to the car sitting too long while I was a way for 6 weeks - it's on a trickle charger now.
Maybe the failures were due to a combination of using fast chargers, which are known to reduce battery lifetime, and battery manufacturing issues making them more susceptible to this type of issue, but no one knows yet.

An EV truck should be better able to compete with an ICE truck in price and range and reliability than the Lightning.

EV batteries are NOT inherently problematic - Tesla and others have shown that.
And EVs have much simpler mechanical systems when compared to ICEs- battery, electric motor(s), brakes - and electrical components - inverter/charging circuits, controllers. All modern cars seem to have computers, so that should not be an issue.

I think they ( @Ford Motor Company ) will get batter at it as other competitors come to market in the next year or so - Cybertruck and Silverado are almost there. Both offer more range than the Lightning and a lower entry price, assuming things don't change.

They have to do better.
They better do better.

Hope I caught all my typos.

 

[Oafy44]

I cancelled my reservation yesterday for a number of reasons.

Probably the most important was the price jump over the announced starting price of under $40k to over $50k.

I got the invite for a MY23. Sticker shock! No Pros available and within a couple days, no XLTs either. $15k+ extra for an extended range battery that adds less than 100 miles range from 230m to 320m? Heating steering wheel not standard?

Saw some MY22 for sale locally but most were loaded $80k and up Lariat models after ADMs of $10k to $20k over MSRP. I found an XLT a couple hundred miles away, but it was priced at over $63k with an ADM of $7,500.

The mismatch between battery size and range. A battery that size could have provided better range if Ford had only thought about it a bit more and done things like 1) reduced the drag by building a more aerodynamic body shape, and 2) reduced the weight with composite materials.

Recent reports of battery failures on Lightnings with low mileage, not cause by any mishandling or misuse, with the indefinite time for battery replacement under warranty. I have had my Nissan Leaf for over 11 years and never had an issue with anything except once the 12v battery died due to the car sitting too long while I was a way for 6 weeks - it's on a trickle charger now.
Maybe the failures were due to a combination of using fast chargers, which are known to reduce battery lifetime, and battery manufacturing issues making them more susceptible to this type of issue, but no one knows yet.

An EV truck should be better able to compete with an ICE truck in price and range and reliability than the Lightning.

EV batteries are NOT inherently problematic - Tesla and others have shown that.
And EVs have much simpler mechanical systems when compared to ICEs- battery, electric motor(s), brakes - and electrical components - inverter/charging circuits, controllers. All modern cars seem to have computers, so that should not be an issue.

I think they ( @Ford Motor Company ) will get better at it as other competitors come to market in the next year or so - Cybertruck and Silverado are almost there. Both offer more range than the Lightning and a lower entry price, assuming things don't change.

They have to do better.
They better do better.

No one on here should feel ashamed or have to make excuses about walking on such a large purchase if they feel the value doesn’t meet their expectations. However I think based off your reasoning you will probably look back and appreciate the lightning more once GM /ram and Tesla trucks come out. Ford and Rivian are the only companies that have actually produced a truck so to think GM or Tesla is going to come out with something cheaper I think you are just trying to justify your reasoning without any real data. Just go on Tesla website right now. try to find the cheapest new car right now. Then look at what they are selling a S or X with 350 range at sub 4 second 0-60 and you will be looking at a vehicle over $100k and that’s without FSD. So to think they will sell a Tesla truck for $50k is out of the question and if they could only sell a handful of model 3’s before Covid at $35k because Musk said he would- they quickly raised prices never were able to do so even close ever again.

I was very much like you in regards vs value but I bit the bullet and bought my truck anyway and really glad I did. This is my first EV and I think Ford did a great job and compared to Tesla I think it’s a great bang for the buck. Of course Ford may have some hiccups with first gen platform but by the time Tesla / GM come out with their first year trucks and deal with those same hiccups / ford will be going on 3rd year of production next fall. In closing your taking other companies “word” they will start their trucks off cheaper then ford without even starting production so I think Ford / Rivian deserve the benefit of the doubt what it cost to make an EV truck these days .

GM EVs will probably have to charge you $30 a month since their version of the Fordapp is run by on star. If I want to remote start my Yukon I have to be subscribed to OnStar. Not with fordapp.
We complain about ford service but I hear Tesla is even worse .

 

[chl]

No one on here should feel ashamed or have to make excuses about walking on such a large purchase if they feel the value doesn’t meet their expectations. However I think based off your reasoning you will probably look back and appreciate the lightning more once GM /ram and Tesla trucks come out. Ford and Rivian are the only companies that have actually produced a truck so to think GM or Tesla is going to come out with something cheaper I think you are just trying to justify your reasoning without any real data. Just go on Tesla website right now. try to find the cheapest new car right now. Then look at what they are selling a S or X with 350 range at sub 4 second 0-60 and you will be looking at a vehicle over $100k and that’s without FSD. So to think they will sell a Tesla truck for $50k is out of the question and if they could only sell a handful of model 3’s before Covid at $35k because Musk said he would- they quickly raised prices never were able to do so even close ever again.

I was very much like you in regards vs value but I bit the bullet and bought my truck anyway and really glad I did. This is my first EV and I think Ford did a great job and compared to Tesla I think it’s a great bang for the buck. Of course Ford may have some hiccups with first gen platform but by the time Tesla / GM come out with their first year trucks and deal with those same hiccups / ford will be going on 3rd year of production next fall. In closing your taking other companies “word” they will start their trucks off cheaper then ford without even starting production so I think Ford / Rivian deserve the benefit of the doubt what it cost to make an EV truck these days .

GM EVs will probably have to charge you $30 a month since their version of the Fordapp is run by on star. If I want to remote start my Yukon I have to be subscribed to OnStar. Not with fordapp.
We complain about ford service but I hear Tesla is even worse .

Maybe...time will tell. But just look back at how, until the pandemic shut down, the costs associate with making EV's were going down as the range was going up. Li batteries should go back to this downward trend eventually.

I believe that the trend will be downward prices and upward range when the competition gets stronger and the costs go back to the downward trend.

Even now I look at the Nissan Leaf as an example. When I bought my 2012 Nissan Leaf SL, it went for about $33k with an EPA range st. of 73 miles - I get more out of mine, but I don't do much highway driving. Now the newest Leaf goes for about the same price but has an EPA range estimate of 212 miles. If not for the reopening premium on the battery costs the car would surely cost less and give double the range than the 2012 model.

In 2011 when I bought my 2012 Leaf there were few EV choices. Ford had an electric Focus BEV - not many sold. The Tesla was nice car then, but almost double what the Leaf cost.

But Chevy (not RAM) is putting out the base model of the Silverado EV first, so they say, not the loaded with extras high-end models.

There are a lot of EV trucks in the pipeline so they say:

https://motorillustrated.com/top-10-ev-trucks-for-sale-today-or-tomorrow/108365/

I think once the supply chain is back up at full capacity - assuming there is not another variant of COVID that shuts things down again - that costs (the costs Ford used to justify the price hike from $40k to $55k starting price) should come down, that is for the battery production / raw materials pipeline.

Tesla built the gigfactory in Texas to mass produce the Cybertruck, so perhaps it will have lower manufacturing costs to begin with. And it is not a new kid on the block like Ford is.

Most analysts predict by 2030, an EV will cost the same or less than an ICE.
Even accounting for the current bubble in battery prices, the China shutdown, inflation, trade wars, etc.

Of course it is hard to predict.
I am looking at the long game/big picture based on the past trends.

I think perhaps something akin to Moore's Law will apply to EVs.
Cars have become computers with wheels after all.

If the Cybertruck rolls out and it is too pricey for what it delivers, I will cancel my reservation.
Same with the Silverado.

If I needed a vehicle right now, maybe I'd have bitten at the $63k XLT I found for sale.

Maybe I'll wait for the used car market to produce some used EV trucks down the road.

I wish you luck with your Lightning, sincerely.

I loved my first EV too.
The Leaf, even with it's limitations, was a lot of fun to drive esp when gas prices are over $4/gal, ha! It took a while to out-grow range anxiety induced by the Guess-O-Meter on the dash.

I still love the Leaf - just need a truck now and then for dirty work, which is my 2001 Ranger for now.

Footnote: I had an estimate to convert the Ranger to an EV for less than the cost of a XLT or Lariat Lightning, so that could be an option for me down the road as well.

No regrets cancelling the Lightning reservation though.

 

[chl]

PS: I think Ford's later generations of the Lightning will get better as they figure things out. Hopefully they will make an EV out of their smaller trucks too (Ranger Maverick) as will other manufacturers.
PPS: My Ranger was an LEV version - Low Emission Vehicle - by 2001 standards and I only put about 61K miles on it in over 21 years. My plan was for the Lightning/Cybertruck/Silverado to replace the Ranger and the Leaf at a reasonable price.

 

[Oafy44]

PS: I think Ford's later generations of the Lightning will get better as they figure things out. Hopefully they will make an EV out of their smaller trucks too (Ranger Maverick) as will other manufacturers.
PPS: My Ranger was an LEV version - Low Emission Vehicle - by 2001 standards and I only put about 61K miles on it in over 21 years. My plan was for the Lightning/Cybertruck/Silverado to replace the Ranger and the Leaf at a reasonable price.

https://apple.news/AtStUEZ1lQpudBe3M1w7Axw

I agree with you that originally that was the plan….at least that’s what they were selling us at the time. EVs we’re going to be cheaper/ more efficient / ect ect. Tesla has arguably the most streamlined/efficient / largest assembly lines in the world and haven’t produced any model S3XY for cheaper then when they first came off the lines so what makes us think all the sudden the cyber truck is going to be cheaper? I agree with you a EV maverick will be a huge hit and would be a great EV to have.

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