I'm Curious, How Many People Are Considering Not Taking Delivery?

[Ostrichsak]

No one on here should feel ashamed or have to make excuses about walking on such a large purchase if they feel the value doesn’t meet their expectations. However I think based off your reasoning you will probably look back and appreciate the lightning more once GM /ram and Tesla trucks come out. Ford and Rivian are the only companies that have actually produced a truck so to think GM or Tesla is going to come out with something cheaper I think you are just trying to justify your reasoning without any real data. Just go on Tesla website right now. try to find the cheapest new car right now. Then look at what they are selling a S or X with 350 range at sub 4 second 0-60 and you will be looking at a vehicle over $100k and that’s without FSD. So to think they will sell a Tesla truck for $50k is out of the question and if they could only sell a handful of model 3’s before Covid at $35k because Musk said he would- they quickly raised prices never were able to do so even close ever again.

I was very much like you in regards vs value but I bit the bullet and bought my truck anyway and really glad I did. This is my first EV and I think Ford did a great job and compared to Tesla I think it’s a great bang for the buck. Of course Ford may have some hiccups with first gen platform but by the time Tesla / GM come out with their first year trucks and deal with those same hiccups / ford will be going on 3rd year of production next fall. In closing your taking other companies “word” they will start their trucks off cheaper then ford without even starting production so I think Ford / Rivian deserve the benefit of the doubt what it cost to make an EV truck these days .

GM EVs will probably have to charge you $30 a month since their version of the Fordapp is run by on star. If I want to remote start my Yukon I have to be subscribed to OnStar. Not with fordapp.
We complain about ford service but I hear Tesla is even worse .

If the goal of your post is to try to place Ford above Tesla, I would advise not mentioning the app capability & user experience. Tesla is on a completely different level from everyone else in this regard.

Get some hands-on time with that Tesla app and what all you can do, how intuitive it is and how quickly and accurately it responds to inputs. It's incredible. It's also 100% free and always has been. Just like the cars, they update the app regularly and are constantly adding features.

I still laugh at people talking about paying a monthly service fee to "remote start" their vehicle and it's a far inferior version to what Tesla does for free. Tesla is the gold standard for vehicle software/user interface/experience and the competition is in the dark age, comparatively speaking.

They (legacy manufacturers) are all super proud of their "advancements" but that's only possible if you act like Tesla doesn't exist like so many have managed to do over the years.

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[Oafy44]

If the goal of your post is to try to place Ford above Tesla, I would advise not mentioning the app capability & user experience. Tesla is on a completely different level from everyone else in this regard.

Get some hands-on time with that Tesla app and what all you can do, how intuitive it is and how quickly and accurately it responds to inputs. It's incredible. It's also 100% free and always has been. Just like the cars, they update the app regularly and are constantly adding features.

I still laugh at people talking about paying a monthly service fee to "remote start" their vehicle and it's a far inferior version to what Tesla does for free. Tesla is the gold standard for vehicle software/user interface/experience and the competition is in the dark age, comparatively speaking.

They (legacy manufacturers) are all super proud of their "advancements" but that's only possible if you act like Tesla doesn't exist like so many have managed to do over the years.

agree. My parents have a Tesla and the software is superior. My argument is Fordapp although not as good as Tesla is pretty good what it is and will hopefully get better. If ford app was like Tesla I would pay a monthly subscription no question.My comment was more directed at all this competition coming out this year and people are complaining about ford raising prices they will complain about having to pay a monthly subscription.

 

[RVTim]

I could agree on the interface Tesla has, except for no apple car play. I like car play as an option at least.

 

[SilverBrewer]

Its cool but frustrating they are replacing sync. I think the next gen Android Automotive will give a great deal of additional features. I saw it on the 24 mustang announcement looks pretty slick much more of a polestar interface.

Edit Spellings and adding that this is where I think Tesla shines the most, the allow for upgrades to the info system - ford has already announced no upgrade path for sync to AA.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I could agree on the interface Tesla has, except for no apple car play. I like car play as an option at least.

I, for one, see Apple Car Play and Android Auto as band-aid fixes that just kind of stuck around in their half-baked and barely functional states. I had a vehicle that had it available and I didn't use it because it was a tremendous drain on my phone's battery and the interface and experience was just awful.

IMO a properly working solution is far superior to the overall experience and this exactly what Tesla has. They opted for Google Maps/Navigation which is lightyears beyond the OEM offerings of other manufacturer's are still insist on clunky slow and outdated navigation solutions that have nearly 10-year-old data in most areas of the country. If this was my only other option I'd feel the need to use my phone w/Google Maps & nav too. As it is, I use the built-in nav for everything and if I want to stream podcasts or anything from my Google account or Android phone I just stream via Bluetooth. Works flawlessly.

Don't forget, these "options" come with a significant price tag in licensing, additional system resources being needlessly occupied and the requirement to open up your software to Apple and Android. I prefer Tesla keeps that all in-house and continues developing/improving what's already the best user experience in the industry even against the competitors who have Airplay & Android Auto available.

Typically, I'm for options and alternatives even if I don't personally use them. In this instance though I can see why Tesla chose not to implement this in their cars and fully support the decision to do so based on the pros and cons.

 

[rdr854]

Its cool but frustrating they are replacing sync. I think the next gen Android Automotive will give a great deal of additional features. I saw it on the 24 mustang announcement looks pretty slick much more of a polestar interface.

Edit Spellings and adding that this is where I think Tesla shines the most, the allow for upgrades to the info system - ford has already announced no upgrade path for sync to AA.

At this point, I am happy not to have Android Auto. I had a 2023 Volvo service loaner 2 weeks ago and the Android Auto was devoid of features. It was basically a bare bone system compared to Volvo’s prior infotainment system. I like the fact that Sync 4a is a mature and built out infotainment system that works well and is rarely glitchy.

My thought process . . . If it is not broke, don’t fix it!

 

[brizilla]

I'm on the fence. $500 down and order in.
I have some regular destinations that have zero fast charging.
I can get there (in warm months)but getting a charge to get home while there would be anything but convenient.

If the TSLA network became available that would be a potential fix.
Can't see the federal interstate chargers getting built out in the next year.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm a newbie, but is there any where on this forum that is talking about the price increase? I put a deposit down on the very first day, and they now say they will not deliver it. Not fair and/or legal, but, what can we do about it? My deposit was for a Pro at $39,974.

Questions to clarify......
Are you saying you placed a reservation $100 in the spring/summer of 2021 like many of us did?

That you converted a reservation to order, and that order is in production and you're facing a price increase?

Or that you did neither of the above but gave a deposit to a dealer on speculation that they would have a Pro on the lot to sell you?

------
It is true that factory prices on all models went up
It is true that the factory is not taking any more build orders for Pro's until start of model year 2024 late next summer 2023.

 

[fromport]

Timeline:
first day reserved in 2021
December 2021 dealership calls me I will be the 7th on their list with orders.
invite to order received: Wed, Sep 7, 2022, one hour later confirmed XLT SR, tow everything.
One week later I read in a local newspaper my dealer is closing. that is when things get messy.
I start calling Ford HQ, I visit other ford dealers. Dealers say they can't do anything because ford HQ needs to change things. I find out all orders of that dealer will be transferred to a dealer 51 miles from where I live.
I have been contacting both HQ & the new dealership regularly.
I tell both sides that I want to upgrade my XLT SR to a Lariat ER.
Opened case 39603691 to expedite transfer to new dealer.
Ford HQ lady calls me every 2 weeks to tell me nothing hasn't changed yet and that she can not do more than she did.

Jan 5 2023 I call again with the "new dealer" and they finally see my order in their system.
Are able to give me a 4 digit order code.
I immediately give them a new config what I want upgraded.
Nothing happens.
I call next day and ask if they received my email " haven't received anything, let me check again: Oh there it is"
So she didn't look/notice, it was there all along. She tells me that her boss needs to enter it in the system.
I call again on Friday 13th (11AM) . Nothing has happened. Order system still show original (no longer existing since October 2022) dealership.
She (internet sales manager) tells me that she needs to check with her boss and will call me back. Of course no call/email rest of the day.

During this weekend I made the decision that I no longer want a Ford F-150 Lighting.
I don't want to be part of the family, even though I will regret that probably once I ever drive in one.
I will keep lurking to know what I am missing but this whole "my first ford" experience including price increase, $7500 tax incentive gone doesn't make me happy.
I will keep lurking to see what I am missing out on, will get my entry removed from reservation/order list. I am out.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I gave $100 to Ford on July 4, 2021. They said I had to pick a dealer, and I picked Big Valley in Stockton. I haven't given any money to Big Valley. But I haven't got my truck either.

So, in this situation you're still in line to receive an offer to place a production special order.
Hopefully you will see that happen in the next few months as model year 2023 order bank winds down, just be aware that PRO's will not be available, and a rare few XLT's may still be available.

If the price of these and higher trims are more than you're willing to purchase, then you might as well click cancel reservation, you will be refunded the $100.

At which point you will have to keep your eye open for the opening of model year 2024 late summer, place an online order ASAP for the PRO if that's all you really want, take note it will be at a much higher price than the initial roll out of early MY22 Pro's

 

[metroshot]

I gave $100 to Ford on July 4, 2021. They said I had to pick a dealer, and I picked Big Valley in Stockton. I haven't given any money to Big Valley. But I haven't got my truck either.

As @TaxmanHog said, if you are waiting for the $39K Pro trim you have been out of the loop for awhile.

The '23 Pro has received 3 price increases since 2021.

The base Pro is currently at $56K before delivery/destination charge.

If you want to wait for your order invite, you may be able to get a very limited XLT trim; as the Pro trim has sold out for MY'23.

I was in the same situation when I ordered my '22 - really wanted the XLT but was locked out so I got the Lariat.

 

[Monkey]

I, for one, see Apple Car Play and Android Auto as band-aid fixes that just kind of stuck around in their half-baked and barely functional states. I had a vehicle that had it available and I didn't use it because it was a tremendous drain on my phone's battery and the interface and experience was just awful.

CarPlay and Android Auto are rapidly becoming the complete solution and not the band-aid they have been. Most automakers are not able or willing to devote the immense resources to software development on this level. They will focus on working with the new versions of these platforms to provide the user experience by better integrating their vehicles with the interface foundations. There was a lot of this being showcased at CES this year. Upcoming new versions of CarPlay and AA are far more integrated. They take over and operate all displays in the car, no more manufacturer UI. The manufacturer builds the intermediate interface or gateway for these apps so now you have direct Siri or Google Assistant integration, full control of heat/AC, lighting, navigation, etc..

Google is willing to allow direct integration so no phone or outside device necessary. Apple is providing more integration than ever before, but still needs the user device.

Most automotive infotainment systems are built on QNX -- which has been under the control of BlackBerry for a long time. BlackBerry is ditching QNX and shifting to Android. Essentially the auto industry will be shifting due to that... It puts automakers in a position of adopting Android as a base, CarPlay and AA extended functionality and all that. Or they have to go it alone and build from the ground up as Tesla has done.

Funny thing is, Ford tried to build from the ground up and could have had something amazing. This was long ago when they partnered with Microsoft to build Sync. Sync v1 was pretty revolutionary for the time and mostly an interface concept more than the intended platform. Ford was unwilling to commit to what Microsoft was wanting to do, and the expense it entailed, so they parted ways, Ford keeping ownership of Sync. Then came Sync 2 -- a total pile of steaming poo. Ford has slowly added to their software team and made strides to improve the system. It has improved, but not at a level most consumers are happy with. If they would have stuck with Microsoft, the displays in the Lighting would probably be fully functional Surface tablets by now that fully integrate every aspect of the vehicle. Oh well...

Ford is transitioning their systems to Android. What that really means is Sync 5 is launching as a native interface running atop Android -- still built on BlackBerry's Automotive Cockpit implementation that they've based on the Android Open Source Project. Will they give us access to the Play Store? Or any App Store variant? Will our current Lightnings be upgradable? Ford has said that they won't be, then said they might be, but I don't think they know until it's finalized... It seems that Sync 4, while QNX based, is using the BlackBerry Automotive Cockpit program that is still QNX, but it's a QNX layer atop BB's AOSP. When you launch your onboard MCU in debug mode or connect to it remotely, it presents Android kernel ID and version info consistent with Android Open Source Project.

 

[RVTim]

It's been an interesting few weeks since I cancelled my Lightning order. There will always be a little regret because after driving one, they will be an excellent truck. Those who end up with them will be happy, if they're OK with the payment. In my case, I just couldn't justify it. Having a pickup was a luxury. It was going to be a daily driver, mostly around town. I have a ~6000lb camper and a ~8000lb boat to tow, both of which it would have towed well, but the places I tow to are 350 miles away. So a gas truck is currently the only practical vehicle for that use. When you tow to upper Michigan, there probably won't be great charging infrastructure for a long time, and it would be no fun to do it in 100 mile hops.

So I spent the last few weeks shopping, and becoming very irritated, because of the new tax credit laws, and how they had such a limiting effect on my car choices. I am not at all a tesla fan boy, and actually would generally go with a Mach E or the new Chevy Blazer EV in a normal situation. I have owned 2 Chevy Volts, and one Bolt EV, and I really liked those cars. The Bolt especially was a lot of fun to drive. So I started shopping the market, and really just came up with the end result that without the tax credit, no car was going to be worth it for me. The prices were all too high. The Model Y probably fit my wishes the best, because it could tow 3500lbs and I do have a ski boat that would be nice to tow at times, without using the suburban. The boat is 2400lbs or so I think. Towable by the Model Y for sure. But, it's pretty irritating that the Blazer EV, the Equinox, and the Mach E can barely tow anything at all. Not gonna sell as many if they can't at least tow a pop-up camper for families. All-wheel Drive was something I really wanted, too, but with a $55,000 cap, you can't buy much for a good longer range AWD car for under the cap.

In the end, I basically settled on a Bolt EUV. Probably the best deal in cars out there right now if you need a daily driver. Could buy 3 of them for the price of the Lightning. And I was pretty happy with the idea of just slapping snow tires on it and getting through Wisconsin winters, until some of the other cars like the Blazer EV were available. (Availability is another horror story with all the main manufacturers) I almost pulled the trigger on the Bolt, until...

Yeah, the Tesla price cut got me. I had almost zero interest when it was around $69,000 as equipped the way I'd have picked it. But when I could get a Model Y long-range for $54990, including the trailer hitch, it took me like 3 minutes to pull out my credit card and put the money down. I was able to get one that was nearly in-stock (enroute to the dealer already), so should have it within 1-2 weeks tops. It's still double the price of the Bolt, but it's a tow-capable AWD car, with plenty of space and a great reputation. (a few of my friends have them, and love them)
With over $30,000 difference between that at my lightning, it's a lot easier pill to swallow, too.

What I was hoping, is that Ford would make me regret my decision, and I'd see that they cut their price too, by $10,000, so you could even get a platinum for $80,000 if you wanted. If they did that, I'd feel a little worse about my choice. But I don't see that happening any time soon. Ford really shot themselves in the foot with the price increase they did around Oct/Nov 22. I think there will still be plenty of happy buyers, but, you're not going to have a truck sells as well as the gas F-150 did, unless you can keep it affordable. It pains me to see that there are people who wanted the Pro and XLT who can't get them too.

But, I guess we live in a capitalist society, and market forces are all that matter, so we'll just have to see what happens.

 

[MannyG20]

I have finally cancelled my Lighting order. The price increases were just too much and I couldn’t justify spending that much on a truck I didn’t need. My current F-150 is fits my needs and i just don’t have a burning desire to replace it.
good luck to all of you still waiting. I hope your Lighting is everything you hope it will be.

 

[9onmy6]

I have finally cancelled my Lighting order. The price increases were just too much and I couldn’t justify spending that much on a truck I didn’t need. My current F-150 is fits my needs and i just don’t have a burning desire to replace it.
good luck to all of you still waiting. I hope your Lighting is everything you hope it will be.

Ed Zachary. I ordered an M2022 XLT at $55k. Which I thought was a bit much. Then the $5k increase. I said self sob, wtf? Ok, I take the the increase for M2023 (with deletes). Then another increase. Without price protection I would be out. I got mine far less than than $65k today.

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