LFP batteries worth waiting another year for?

[KevinC]

Ford officially announced LFP will be available for 2024 models. Worth waiting for a potentially cheaper more stable battery with lower range?

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[gorwell]

I doubt the average buyer will notice a difference between LFP and NCA, in terms of driving. They are supposed to notice in their wallet (we'll see if that plays out).

Current Chem tesla batteries, which are really the only one's w/ the miles don't show much degradation.

Kyle Conner is like worst case scenario and at 100K only lost 10% of battery.

The reason to wait isn't for battery Chem (unless you plan on waiting 5-10 years).

Reason to wait would be for a better overall truck, namely Heat pump and 800v charging.

 

[greenne]

I doubt the average buyer will notice a difference between LFP and NCA, in terms of driving. They are supposed to notice in their wallet (we'll see if that plays out).

Current Chem tesla batteries, which are really the only one's w/ the miles don't show much degradation.

Kyle Conner is like worst case scenario and at 100K only lost 10% of battery.

The reason to wait isn't for battery Chem (unless you plan on waiting 5-10 years).

Reason to wait would be for a better overall truck, namely Heat pump and 800v charging.

I would not wait. If you get an invite and you can afford the truck at trim available, do not wait.

We know the situation now, we don't know the situation 12 months from now. With demand so high I would grab a truck if you can. You can always "trade up" if LFP comes out and is much better.

Just my opinion.

 

[FordLightningMan]

There are pros and cons to LFP. If you are more concerned about performance, then the current batteries are better. My guess is the lower end models will all be moved to LFP, so the days of 3.9 second 0-60 Pros will be short lived.

Do you want to be able to charge to 100% and save a few bucks? LFP may be for you. It really seems like LFP and Pro are made for each other.

 

[sotek2345]

There are pros and cons to LFP. If you are more concerned about performance, then the current batteries are better. My guess is the lower end models will all be moved to LFP, so the days of 3.9 second 0-60 Pros will be short lived.

Do you want to be able to charge to 100% and save a few bucks? LFP may be for you. It really seems like LFP and Pro are made for each other.

It depends on how well Ford can manage the cold weather performance of the LFP batteries. If they hold the same capacity with the switch (230mi), you will be down below 100 mi range in the winter on the highway with LFP. They don't like the cold. Only real way to avoid it that I know of is to keep a battery heater constantly running so they stay warm - but that isn't free either (from both a charging cost and a range perspective).

 

[Kev12345]

there's going to be many huge improvements to the 2nd gen lightning in 2025 aside from LFP. faster charging, more range, maybe even bed length options? I would prefer to have LFP as its built to last longer over time with less degradation and its more stable (safer). Tesla already solved the cold weather performance issues so it seems like a non issue. assuming I can get a 2023 lightning model, i'm planning on selling it as soon as the 2nd gen's are available. I don't think the current models will age well over time and the value probably won't hold strong when ford is pumping out the 2nd gen lightnings at high volume. I feel like there will be a very short lived window of being able to sell the current ones at a reasonable price before it becomes the 1st gen Nissan Leaf of the truck world.

 

[SmoothJ]

Who makes our current batteries and was there ever a tear down of our battery pack yet?

 

[sotek2345]

Who makes our current batteries and was there ever a tear down of our battery pack yet?

SK Innovations makes them, but I haven't seen a tear down yet.

 

[FlasherZ]

I doubt the average buyer will notice a difference between LFP and NCA, in terms of driving. They are supposed to notice in their wallet (we'll see if that plays out).

Current Chem tesla batteries, which are really the only one's w/ the miles don't show much degradation.

Kyle Conner is like worst case scenario and at 100K only lost 10% of battery.

The reason to wait isn't for battery Chem (unless you plan on waiting 5-10 years).

Reason to wait would be for a better overall truck, namely Heat pump and 800v charging.

We have a 2016 Model X with 160,000 miles. Charged to 287ish new, charges to ~260 now at 100%. So roughly 10% across 6 years, 160k.

 

[KevinC]

I'm actually quite excited about the LFP. From the sound of it they have the potential to really lower prices and increase energy/range by just being cheaper and adding more. They've been getting progressively denser in the last few years to get in the same room as cobalt. I might just get the 2023 lightning and then try to flip it for a 2024 if the math works out at the time.

One thing that I don't see drawn out much is the idea that the LFP can actually charge near 100% more reliably than cobalt. To me, it seems that narrows the range gap more if people can't actually use all of their cobalt battery on a regular basis but you can use all of the LFP.


This guy is a little goofy and long-winded, but sometimes he digs up some interesting information.

 

[Roy2001]

LFP's advantage is 100% won't hurt capacity, but it is relatively heavy and winter performance is not good.

 

[SmoothJ]

I need to look this up, but does a fully charged battery weigh more than a depleted battery? Unlike ICEs that burn fuel, a normal byproduct of burning also removes weight as well, we need to keep that weight in the form of a battery pack.

 

[sotek2345]

I need to look this up, but does a fully charged battery weigh more than a depleted battery? Unlike ICEs that burn fuel, a normal byproduct of burning also removes weight as well, we need to keep that weight in the form of a battery pack.

Technically yes, but it is very very minimal. The weight is gained via E=mc2. We are talking fractions of a nanogram.

 

[p52Ranch]

I need to look this up, but does a fully charged battery weigh more than a depleted battery? Unlike ICEs that burn fuel, a normal byproduct of burning also removes weight as well, we need to keep that weight in the form of a battery pack.

I think one kilogram of electrons would fully charge 191 million Lightning ER batteries. I hope I did that calculation right.

 

[jefro]

The benefit for consumers is that LiFePo4 batteries for uses like trolling motors, golf carts and such has dropped by 1/4 over the last few years.

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