Lightning as a battery backup split loads

[Deck]

Hey all:

SO I live in AZ, I have solar on my house. Love the solar but currently DO NOT have batteries. I've got a quote for power wall 3's. I had this wonderful idea to use the lightning as the battery, but I think there is a huge problem. As I see it here, one solution the Tesla batteries allow my to use a combiner and get power "shared" from up to three sources, THe Grid, my solar and batteries if I opt to install. I have SRP, and the rates are adjusted basd on peak use so people install the batteries to do power shaving. SO anything below 4Kw it uses solar if available, anything over that it pulls as needed from the batteries to avoid the peak charge.

So enter the Lightning and you get nothing like that, you are off grid drawing power for the lightning, is my solar off at that time? It appears it sort of a one or the other bydirectional system, you are charging, or discharging but it isolates itself from the balance of the system.

So do I have that right?

If so, power sharing isn't really possible like it is with the Tesla batteries.

My solar is new enphase and I do have monitoring and power shaving (It turns of power to 240V systems) at whatever peak levels i set.

I also have a 400W panel for the house already so that is a plus.

THanks for whatever advice you can give.

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[hturnerfamily]

I think the LIGHTNING, or any electric vehicle, is going to make constant on-grid/off-grid systems difficult to integrate - the truck is designed to CHARGE, and is designed to provide POWER output, but not the same way a bank of batteries for your solar system is. It 'can' provide similar outcomes, but probably not at the same convenience or automation.

I like and appreciate the idea of battery sharing with a home, or even the grid, but the one thing that we have to always consider, which is different from a static battery bank, is that this is a TRUCK, which we also want to USE ... this is not always convenient for usage as a battery bank, and we have to consider that we also need it to be CHARGED when we are needing to DRIVE it... driving may be on a regular schedule, yes, such as a daily work commute, but you also don't want it to interfere with impromptu needs, otherwise.

Yes, it 'can' work, but the requirements to make it happen might not fit with many owner's needs.

 

[v2h8484]

If so, power sharing isn't really possible like it is with the Tesla batteries.

Nope. Tesla Powerwall and F150 Lightning are both proprietary systems and cannot directly share power. Powerwall does support power sharing with the Tesla Cybertruck.

 

[tearitupsports]

The Ford Home Integration System does allow you to use AC coupled solar, but only when the truck is plugged in and in "off-grid" mode, or if you add a battery to the system (which requires very specific models). For reference the solar can charge the truck if there is excess.

If you use the pro-power onboard only, you will not likely be able to use the solar as that could be dangerous if the solar is out producing the load. You could get a system that has both battery and a generator input and possible have them all working in harmony.

 

[Quibbs]

Hey all:

SO I live in AZ, I have solar on my house. Love the solar but currently DO NOT have batteries. I've got a quote for power wall 3's. I had this wonderful idea to use the lightning as the battery, but I think there is a huge problem. As I see it here, one solution the Tesla batteries allow my to use a combiner and get power "shared" from up to three sources, THe Grid, my solar and batteries if I opt to install. I have SRP, and the rates are adjusted basd on peak use so people install the batteries to do power shaving. SO anything below 4Kw it uses solar if available, anything over that it pulls as needed from the batteries to avoid the peak charge.

So enter the Lightning and you get nothing like that, you are off grid drawing power for the lightning, is my solar off at that time? It appears it sort of a one or the other bydirectional system, you are charging, or discharging but it isolates itself from the balance of the system.

So do I have that right?

If so, power sharing isn't really possible like it is with the Tesla batteries.

My solar is new enphase and I do have monitoring and power shaving (It turns of power to 240V systems) at whatever peak levels i set.

I also have a 400W panel for the house already so that is a plus.

THanks for whatever advice you can give.

I am interested in seeing if this can be done as well.

We are building a new home and wanted to incorporate an Enphase system. Our local utility denied the interconnection because our system was too large for the substation we are connected to based on reserved overhead required by our state utility commission. It is limited to 20kw generating systems and they include the batteries as well as the solar panel capacities to determine overall size of a system.

In our case that came out to a 86kw, well above the threshold. So we will probably drop the batteries and reduce the solar to a 20kw system to secure approval. To do an end around for batteries I was hoping we would be able to use the Lightning as a backup battery for at least one (would be great if it could back up more than one panel) of our 200 amp panels in our house when the grid goes out. Since the truck would be connected through the Ford charger it may not be subjected to the requirements for interconnection.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Nope. Tesla Powerwall and F150 Lightning are both proprietary systems and cannot directly share power. Powerwall does support power sharing with the Tesla Cybertruck.

My understanding is that only the powerwall 3 plus the cyber truck (no other vehicles or power walls)work in this manner and I do not know if Tesla has enabled this yet?

 

[IWIRE]

I am attempting a similar system. I currently can run my home most of the night with the PPO only, but at times I need additional power. I am thinking of hooking up my 5 ton HVAC to a newly installed HIS and a separate panel and then I could run everything else off the PPO. My understanding is that both the HIS and PPO can operate at he same time while still on the grid, by Isolating the HIS loads to a panel that does not see the grid at night. My need for the truck is occasional, so I currently charge if all day with my excess solar and only use the truck at night as a power source. I m always hooked up to the grid, but want to eliminate the 8 cents per kWH for the utility portion of my electric bill. The energy charge portion of my electric bill is roughly 2 cents per kWH at night. The utility portion charge is 8 cents per kWH, so it is about 80% of my electric bill each month. Basically I want to use the truck as battery storage for use at night.

 

[Riverant]

I have enphase solar but not the ford charger. Currently my solar shuts off when the power goes out. I haven’t pursued it but was envisioning adding a small battery that serves as a sort of hub. It would be charged from the solar and power the house in the event of an outage. Additionally, the lightning would keep the battery topped off when needed using the 30a ProPower. Anyone know if this is possible?

 

[tearitupsports]

I am attempting a similar system. I currently can run my home most of the night with the PPO only, but at times I need additional power. I am thinking of hooking up my 5 ton HVAC to a newly installed HIS and a separate panel and then I could run everything else off the PPO. My understanding is that both the HIS and PPO can operate at he same time while still on the grid, by Isolating the HIS loads to a panel that does not see the grid at night. My need for the truck is occasional, so I currently charge if all day with my excess solar and only use the truck at night as a power source. I m always hooked up to the grid, but want to eliminate the 8 cents per kWH for the utility portion of my electric bill. The energy charge portion of my electric bill is roughly 2 cents per kWH at night. The utility portion charge is 8 cents per kWH, so it is about 80% of my electric bill each month. Basically I want to use the truck as battery storage for use at night.

You are correct in that you can use HIS and pro=power at the same time, but the HIS system requires the system to be in an off-grid scenario only. To do this you would have to manually change over 2 breakers every night and then turn them back on every morning. The other option would be to buy a smart main load panel and move all your current loads to that as the main panel. Either option would be a pain in the butt, or a lot of expense just to save 8 cents per kwh.
One option I have considered is just keeping my backup load panel permanently off grid.

 

[IWIRE]

That’s an idea, thanks. What smart panel are you suggesting would work?

 

[v2h8484]

My understanding is that only the powerwall 3 plus the cyber truck (no other vehicles or power walls)work in this manner and I do not know if Tesla has enabled this yet?

AFAIK all PW's are/will be supported. Tesla is supposedly pushing out OTA updates now for solar only customers first then PW customers.

 

[v2h8484]

I have enphase solar but not the ford charger. Currently my solar shuts off when the power goes out. I haven’t pursued it but was envisioning adding a small battery that serves as a sort of hub. It would be charged from the solar and power the house in the event of an outage. Additionally, the lightning would keep the battery topped off when needed using the 30a ProPower. Anyone know if this is possible?

Assuming you are talking about Enphase (and other AC coupled batteries), the answer is unfortunately no. Enphase does support generators (via its Gateway) but only approved ones (mainly standby generators with auto-start/stop control input). Most portable generators (including the Lightning) don't qualify.

 

[Riverant]

Assuming you are talking about Enphase (and other AC coupled batteries), the answer is unfortunately no. Enphase does support generators (via its Gateway) but only approved ones (mainly standby generators with auto-start/stop control input). Most portable generators (including the Lightning) don't qualify.

thanks. Is there an option to use non-enphase batteries in this setup? Or is everything tied up in their own proprietary eco systems?

 

[v2h8484]

thanks. Is there an option to use non-enphase batteries in this setup? Or is everything tied up in their own proprietary eco systems?

Yes. A hybrid inverter/charger running on 48V batteries would likely be cheaper and allow easy charging from generator on demand. Example hybrid inverter/charger vendors include Schneider, Midnite Solar, Growatt, Sol-Ark, EG4, etc. Many of the inverter/charger vendors also sell 48V batteries but there are many more other choices. Most of the inverter/chargers support generator input but some may trip bonded neutral generators like the Lightning. In that case, you can use a separate 48V battery charger (e.g. Chargeverter).

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