Lightning dimension for 2nd row

[RickLightning]

Appreciate the information. My Wife and I don't have a solid timeline yet on when we're planning to buy our first EV, but it will likely be before the end of 2025. The Lincoln MKC we currently use doesn't really have enough room for us + dogs + suitcases + beach gear, which makes for uncomfortable trips (especially since we typically drive ~800 miles one way).

I have a spreadsheet where I've been tracking the upcoming EV Trucks, so we can make the best informed decision when the time comes. We're currently looking at: F-150 Lightning, RAM 1500 REV, Chevy Silverado EV, Rivian R1T and Cybertruck.

Biggest factor for us is comfort for us + dogs and the efficiency of the truck to reduce charge time, which I have calculated based on each truck (number of times we'd need to charge and how long each stop would take). Of course, I can only be so accurate since a couple of those trucks haven't been released yet.

100% agree with you on this. That's another reason why the Cybertruck has been higher on our list; they have a great charging network that extends to where both of our families live. Of course, Ford and Stellantis announcing they are picking up the Tesla charger format will help alleviate that issue; we'd just have to pay Tesla to use their network.

You're creating a spreadsheet for vehicles today, but not planning on buying for 22 months? Much will have changed by then.

As to efficiency of charging time, an 800 mile drive will be two days. We've done many drives with our Mach-E, and soon with the Lightning, and 3 charging stops in a day, plus charging overnight at your destination, is about it. Around 500 miles gets you from 8AM to dinner time. Charging in 30 minutes or so each stop would seem to be ideal to exercise pets and clean up after them, then bathroom stops for yourself.

Picking up the Tesla charging port in 2025 is irrelevant, since this Spring we'll have an adapter and access to the Tesla SuperCharger network, over 15,000 of them. And, we won't pay Tesla a dime, we'll pay Ford and they'll pay Tesla. No different than a Ford in 2025 or 2026, except for the adapter.

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[djwildstar]

We're currently looking at: F-150 Lightning, RAM 1500 REV, Chevy Silverado EV, Rivian R1T and Cybertruck. [...] Biggest factor for us is comfort for us + dogs and the efficiency of the truck to reduce charge time

I'd be interested in seeing what your spreadsheet projects. As far as I know, only the Silverado EV is an 800V truck; I believe that all of the others are 400V architectures. Very roughly speaking, I would expect that all of the 400V trucks will have a roughly 80/20 split between drive time and charge time, and I'd expect the 800V architecture to get close to a 90/10 split.

My most-recent road trip is very similar to your use case: about 800 miles each way, with the return being a 16-hour Interstate marathon. Over the whole trip (1650 miles), we averaged 17.6% of our time plugged-in and charging, and 82.4% driving (including driving to and from charging stops). For the long return trip, I tried to stick fairly close to Motor Trend's 75MPH, 30-minute-charge road trip strategy, which is (supposed to) yield an overall minimum trip time.

 

[usafman2006]

I'd be interested in seeing what your spreadsheet projects. As far as I know, only the Silverado EV is an 800V truck; I believe that all of the others are 400V architectures. Very roughly speaking, I would expect that all of the 400V trucks will have a roughly 80/20 split between drive time and charge time, and I'd expect the 800V architecture to get close to a 90/10 split.

My most-recent road trip is very similar to your use case: about 800 miles each way, with the return being a 16-hour Interstate marathon. Over the whole trip (1650 miles), we averaged 17.6% of our time plugged-in and charging, and 82.4% driving (including driving to and from charging stops). For the long return trip, I tried to stick fairly close to Motor Trend's 75MPH, 30-minute-charge road trip strategy, which is (supposed to) yield an overall minimum trip time.

The Cybertruck, RAM 1500 REV and Chevy Silverado are on 800V architectures; the Rivian R1T and Ford Lightning are currently on 400V; however, both companies have stated their next Gen will be updated to 800V as well, so all 5 will be able to take advantage of the v4 chargers.

I have several friends who have owned EVs for a while now. Most use the 80/20 or 85/15 'rule' to prolong battery life. Exception being on long trips, they'll charge to near 100% on the first leg to get a few extra miles. I'll likely lean toward the 85/15 split. We typically leave really early in the day for our trips - probably around ~5 AM or so.

Granted, my numbers won't be exactly accurate since advertised range is never reality and factors like speed, weather, AC usage, radio, etc. will affect the range, but I've based my spreadsheet off the advertised range to give me a ballpark.

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
340 mi range	350 mi range	352 mi range	320 mi range	400 mi range
123 kWh battery	168 kWh battery	129 kWh battery	131 kWh battery	200 kWh battery
800V arch	800V arch	400V arch	400V arch	800V arch

For my purpose, I'll start with 100/10 split for first leg and switch to 85/10 split for remainder.
The miles below reflect remaining miles on the TRIP at each stop to charge the battery

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi
1st charge: 494 mi	1st charge: 485 mi	1st charge: 484 mi	1st charge: 512 mi	1st charge: 440 mi
2nd charge: 256 mi	2nd charge: 240 mi	2nd charge: 237 mi	2nd charge: 288 mi	2nd charge: 160 mi
3rd charge: 18 mi	3rd charge: -5 mi	3rd charge: -9 mi	3rd charge: 64 mi	3rd charge: -120 mi
4th charge: -220 mi	4th charge: -250 mi	4th charge: -256 mi	4th charge: -160 mi	4th charge: N/A

In most cases, I went with 4 stops to charge since I wanted to make sure I had plenty of energy remaining by the time we reached our destination.

Using the 85/10 split, I'll use ~75% of the battery, so the cumulative time charging should be:

V4 superchargers output 350 kW and charge ~ 115 miles per 5 minutes or 1,400 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~44 minutes (11 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~45 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~46 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~42 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~39 minutes (13 mins per stop)

V3 superchargers output 250 kW and charge ~ 75 miles per 5 minutes or 1,000 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~62 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~63 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~64 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~58 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~54 minutes (18 mins per stop)

The numbers above also don't count time used to drive from the highway to the charge station (and vice-versa) and I'm sure the charging rates won't be as good as advertised either. So, I'm just using these as general guidelines to compare the trucks against one another rather than expected real world values. If I had to guess, I'll likely have to add in an extra charge cycle for each to be closer to real world.

 

[sotek2345]

You're creating a spreadsheet for vehicles today, but not planning on buying for 22 months? Much will have changed by then.

As to efficiency of charging time, an 800 mile drive will be two days. We've done many drives with our Mach-E, and soon with the Lightning, and 3 charging stops in a day, plus charging overnight at your destination, is about it. Around 500 miles gets you from 8AM to dinner time. Charging in 30 minutes or so each stop would seem to be ideal to exercise pets and clean up after them, then bathroom stops for yourself.

Picking up the Tesla charging port in 2025 is irrelevant, since this Spring we'll have an adapter and access to the Tesla SuperCharger network, over 15,000 of them. And, we won't pay Tesla a dime, we'll pay Ford and they'll pay Tesla. No different than a Ford in 2025 or 2026, except for the adapter.

You can do more in a day, but you have to push it. I recently did an 800 mile round trip in a single day, with a 5 hour work meeting at the destination, but it took me 23 hours from leaving until getting home. I should have been closer to 20 hours, but I lost a lot of time in D.C. rush hour traffic and had to wait over an hour for a charger in NJ before I could even plug in (2 of 4 chargers broken and a line of cars already there). Warmer weather would have made it even faster with the higher efficiency.

 

[sotek2345]

The Cybertruck, RAM 1500 REV and Chevy Silverado are on 800V architectures; the Rivian R1T and Ford Lightning are currently on 400V; however, both companies have stated their next Gen will be updated to 800V as well, so all 5 will be able to take advantage of the v4 chargers.

I have several friends who have owned EVs for a while now. Most use the 80/20 or 85/15 'rule' to prolong battery life. Exception being on long trips, they'll charge to near 100% on the first leg to get a few extra miles. I'll likely lean toward the 85/15 split. We typically leave really early in the day for our trips - probably around ~5 AM or so.

Granted, my numbers won't be exactly accurate since advertised range is never reality and factors like speed, weather, AC usage, radio, etc. will affect the range, but I've based my spreadsheet off the advertised range to give me a ballpark.

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
340 mi range	350 mi range	352 mi range	320 mi range	400 mi range
123 kWh battery	168 kWh battery	129 kWh battery	131 kWh battery	200 kWh battery
800V arch	800V arch	400V arch	400V arch	800V arch

For my purpose, I'll start with 100/10 split for first leg and switch to 85/10 split for remainder.
The miles below reflect remaining miles on the TRIP at each stop to charge the battery

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi
1st charge: 494 mi	1st charge: 485 mi	1st charge: 484 mi	1st charge: 512 mi	1st charge: 440 mi
2nd charge: 256 mi	2nd charge: 240 mi	2nd charge: 237 mi	2nd charge: 288 mi	2nd charge: 160 mi
3rd charge: 18 mi	3rd charge: -5 mi	3rd charge: -9 mi	3rd charge: 64 mi	3rd charge: -120 mi
4th charge: -220 mi	4th charge: -250 mi	4th charge: -256 mi	4th charge: -160 mi	4th charge: N/A

In most cases, I went with 4 stops to charge since I wanted to make sure I had plenty of energy remaining by the time we reached our destination.

Using the 85/10 split, I'll use ~75% of the battery, so the cumulative time charging should be:

V4 superchargers output 350 kW and charge ~ 115 miles per 5 minutes or 1,400 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~44 minutes (11 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~45 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~46 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~42 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~39 minutes (13 mins per stop)

V3 superchargers output 250 kW and charge ~ 75 miles per 5 minutes or 1,000 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~62 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~63 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~64 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~58 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~54 minutes (18 mins per stop)

The numbers above also don't count time used to drive from the highway to the charge station (and vice-versa) and I'm sure the charging rates won't be as good as advertised either. So, I'm just using these as general guidelines to compare the trucks against one another rather than expected real world values. If I had to guess, I'll likely have to add in an extra charge cycle for each to be closer to real world.

Your bigger problem is that the chargers won't really be where you want them to be, so you have to adjust your driving legs to match where the chargers are.

 

[usafman2006]

Your bigger problem is that the chargers won't really be where you want them to be, so you have to adjust your driving legs to match where the chargers are.

Agreed - already accounted for that! =)

 

[Zprime29]

The Cybertruck, RAM 1500 REV and Chevy Silverado are on 800V architectures; the Rivian R1T and Ford Lightning are currently on 400V; however, both companies have stated their next Gen will be updated to 800V as well, so all 5 will be able to take advantage of the v4 chargers.

I have several friends who have owned EVs for a while now. Most use the 80/20 or 85/15 'rule' to prolong battery life. Exception being on long trips, they'll charge to near 100% on the first leg to get a few extra miles. I'll likely lean toward the 85/15 split. We typically leave really early in the day for our trips - probably around ~5 AM or so.

Granted, my numbers won't be exactly accurate since advertised range is never reality and factors like speed, weather, AC usage, radio, etc. will affect the range, but I've based my spreadsheet off the advertised range to give me a ballpark.

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
340 mi range	350 mi range	352 mi range	320 mi range	400 mi range
123 kWh battery	168 kWh battery	129 kWh battery	131 kWh battery	200 kWh battery
800V arch	800V arch	400V arch	400V arch	800V arch

For my purpose, I'll start with 100/10 split for first leg and switch to 85/10 split for remainder.
The miles below reflect remaining miles on the TRIP at each stop to charge the battery

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi
1st charge: 494 mi	1st charge: 485 mi	1st charge: 484 mi	1st charge: 512 mi	1st charge: 440 mi
2nd charge: 256 mi	2nd charge: 240 mi	2nd charge: 237 mi	2nd charge: 288 mi	2nd charge: 160 mi
3rd charge: 18 mi	3rd charge: -5 mi	3rd charge: -9 mi	3rd charge: 64 mi	3rd charge: -120 mi
4th charge: -220 mi	4th charge: -250 mi	4th charge: -256 mi	4th charge: -160 mi	4th charge: N/A

In most cases, I went with 4 stops to charge since I wanted to make sure I had plenty of energy remaining by the time we reached our destination.

Using the 85/10 split, I'll use ~75% of the battery, so the cumulative time charging should be:

V4 superchargers output 350 kW and charge ~ 115 miles per 5 minutes or 1,400 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~44 minutes (11 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~45 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~46 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~42 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~39 minutes (13 mins per stop)

V3 superchargers output 250 kW and charge ~ 75 miles per 5 minutes or 1,000 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~62 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~63 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~64 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~58 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~54 minutes (18 mins per stop)

The numbers above also don't count time used to drive from the highway to the charge station (and vice-versa) and I'm sure the charging rates won't be as good as advertised either. So, I'm just using these as general guidelines to compare the trucks against one another rather than expected real world values. If I had to guess, I'll likely have to add in an extra charge cycle for each to be closer to real world.

I'd also caution basing the distances off EPA reported ranges. At 70mph, best case is 280 miles 100% to empty for the ER Lightning and I see your chart has it traveling 288 miles. Also, it looks like you are assuming full rate that the charger can provide but we cap around 170kW so V3 and V4 chargers will be identical for us (assuming both can provide 500A).

 

[NJAdales2]

Friends - My Wife and I have a couple of dachshunds we like to take with us on trips when visiting family.
I've been searching the web, but I can't seem to find specific interior dimensions to see if our dog crate will fit in the second row. Does anyone know or have measurements for how deep the 2nd row is? I've included an image for what I've been looking for:

I'm pretty sure our current crate won't fit on the floor with the seat folded up, so placing it on the seat would be the next option.

Thanks!

We measured our new 2023 Lightning Lariat to see whether we could find two crates that would fit back-to-back for our two 55-lb Airedale Terriers, allowing one dog to enter/exit on the drivers side and the other on the passenger side. We measured with the back seats folded up so crates could go on the floor. In measuring, we took into account the back of the front console and the armrests and bottom storage areas on the doors. We measured the available floor from door to door as 59 5/8" and armrest to armrest as 58 3/4". We measured the depth of the floor from rear to console as 25 1/2".

Searching online, we came up with -and ordered- two Ruff Land Kennels Intermediate "Backseat Rider" crates. They are designed for use in backseats of trucks and other vehicles and we hope they will work. Fit from door-to-door will be quite snug as the exterior dimensions of each crate will be 27 7/8" long x 20" wide x 23 1/4" tall. The dogs will be a bit cozier in these crates than they are in the Large Ruff Land crates they travel in on our camping trips in the very back of our Ford Explorer, but I think they will be okay and, in an accident, actually would likely be safer in tighter quarters.

What kind of crate do you have for your dachshunds? It sounds as if they hang out together in one crate -- good that they're pals! Good luck in your truck search!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

The Cybertruck, RAM 1500 REV and Chevy Silverado are on 800V architectures; the Rivian R1T and Ford Lightning are currently on 400V; however, both companies have stated their next Gen will be updated to 800V as well, so all 5 will be able to take advantage of the v4 chargers.

I have several friends who have owned EVs for a while now. Most use the 80/20 or 85/15 'rule' to prolong battery life. Exception being on long trips, they'll charge to near 100% on the first leg to get a few extra miles. I'll likely lean toward the 85/15 split. We typically leave really early in the day for our trips - probably around ~5 AM or so.

Granted, my numbers won't be exactly accurate since advertised range is never reality and factors like speed, weather, AC usage, radio, etc. will affect the range, but I've based my spreadsheet off the advertised range to give me a ballpark.

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
340 mi range	350 mi range	352 mi range	320 mi range	400 mi range
123 kWh battery	168 kWh battery	129 kWh battery	131 kWh battery	200 kWh battery
800V arch	800V arch	400V arch	400V arch	800V arch

For my purpose, I'll start with 100/10 split for first leg and switch to 85/10 split for remainder.
The miles below reflect remaining miles on the TRIP at each stop to charge the battery

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi	home: 800 mi
1st charge: 494 mi	1st charge: 485 mi	1st charge: 484 mi	1st charge: 512 mi	1st charge: 440 mi
2nd charge: 256 mi	2nd charge: 240 mi	2nd charge: 237 mi	2nd charge: 288 mi	2nd charge: 160 mi
3rd charge: 18 mi	3rd charge: -5 mi	3rd charge: -9 mi	3rd charge: 64 mi	3rd charge: -120 mi
4th charge: -220 mi	4th charge: -250 mi	4th charge: -256 mi	4th charge: -160 mi	4th charge: N/A

In most cases, I went with 4 stops to charge since I wanted to make sure I had plenty of energy remaining by the time we reached our destination.

Using the 85/10 split, I'll use ~75% of the battery, so the cumulative time charging should be:

V4 superchargers output 350 kW and charge ~ 115 miles per 5 minutes or 1,400 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~44 minutes (11 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~45 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~46 minutes (12 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~42 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~39 minutes (13 mins per stop)

V3 superchargers output 250 kW and charge ~ 75 miles per 5 minutes or 1,000 miles in 60 min

Cybertruck	RAM 1500 REV	Rivian R1T	Ford Lightning	Chevy Silverado
4 stops: ~62 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~63 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~64 minutes (16 mins per stop)	4 stops: ~58 minutes (11 mins per stop)	3 stops: ~54 minutes (18 mins per stop)

The numbers above also don't count time used to drive from the highway to the charge station (and vice-versa) and I'm sure the charging rates won't be as good as advertised either. So, I'm just using these as general guidelines to compare the trucks against one another rather than expected real world values. If I had to guess, I'll likely have to add in an extra charge cycle for each to be closer to real world.

So....going to throw a wrench into your calculations. Having owned 2 of the 5, I can already tell you what's on paper isn't going to be reality. This also coming from someone with a decade of EV ownership and regularly road trips..

The real world variations are far more than you can account for. The most I've gotten out of my Lightning is 289 miles w/4 miles remaining based on my driving habits, which is 10% less than the rated. The most I've gotten out of my R1T is ~342 miles with 6% remaining on 22" wheels & quad motor/large pack. That's 9% better than EPA rating...same driving habits.

Then you have to account for charge curves. The R1T has a higher peak charge rate, I've gotten a max of 217kW, it took 33min 47s to go from 27% to 78% charge on the R1T - 75.709kWh delivered. Comparatively, the Lightning with a peak of 158kW at the same charger took 34min 15 sec to go from 23% to 77% for 75.002kWh delivered. If you notice, the usable capacity is much larger in the Rivian.

You need to also change your calculations. A 11min stop isn't going to get you close to that. I have a 14min 8sec stop with a peak of 171kW, about the highest a Lightning will go and that netted me 30.012kWh (49-70%) - good enough for 60-70 miles of range, not 224 like you're projecting.

Even within the same make, I have a MX75D, a MX90D, and a MS75D. All 3 are supposed to have the same charge speed and equipment being built within 3 mo of each other. They also have relatively close displayed ranges (based on EPA) The MX75D indicates 210 miles, the MS75D indicates 220 miles, and the MX90D indicates 240 miles, but the MS75D goes the furthest and completes the trip 30 minutes faster than the MX90D, and an hour faster than the MX75D. Sometimes it's tough to spreadsheet this and you just need to get on the road with it. I recommend renting them if you're in doubt.

**I take a 1200 mile round trip 2-3x a month so I rotate the 5 cars above. I've tried swapping various wheels, setting cruise controls, I've even used the built in speed limiters to limit my top speeds. I've also utilized OBD readers and keep a log of all my charging. I've essentially turned it into a test route as I'm routinely able to beat ABRP, WAZE, Apple Maps, etc.

Edit: Deleted my travel times as you would notice my speeds....I was traveling at a speed at which I'm comfortable with.

 

[djwildstar]

I have several friends who have owned EVs for a while now. Most use the 80/20 or 85/15 'rule' to prolong battery life. [...] Granted, my numbers won't be exactly accurate since advertised range is never reality.

For the Lightning, Ford suggests routine daily charging to 90% with charging to 100% when specifically needed for road trips. On the road, Ford's recommended approach is to drive down to 15% and charge back up to 80%. Charging slows dramatically above 80%, but 85% isn't unreasonably long if you need the extra miles.

You may want to log into the ABRP website and put in your actual road trip, rather than assuming a generic one. The ABRP route will include actual charging station spacing and speed limits along the route, so will do a better job of modeling how the vehicle will do for your specific use case. Some back-of-the envelope calculations suggest that the Rivian R1T Dual-Motor probably has the best road-trip performance right now, and that the Cybertruck will be competitive with it (more but shorter stops for similar overall time) once the V4 SuperChargers are widely available. The Lightning will probably require an extra stop compared to the Rivian, so will likely be 45 minutes to an hour behind.

Once new generations are out with 800V architectures, expect all of this to change. Ford has specifically said they are looking at aerodynamic improvements, which will have a significant effect on range at highway speeds.

 

[usafman2006]

Agreed to everything you so have stated, but keep in mind, the main point of using advertised numbers was to be able to compare the trucks against each other, not really to gain real-world expectations.
Since 2 of the trucks in my list are still in development, the only choice I really have is to used there numbers advertised on the various websites to keep a true applies-to-apples comparison.

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