Pro Power problem

[IWIRE]

I'll let Maquis chime in on this as he's the expert but removing the neutral from your panel seems very dangerous. Just remove the ground from the truck or get a proper neutral switching transfer switch.

Isn't neural-ground bonded in the truck, I always have truck neutral or service neutral bonded at the panel, and only after turning off the MCB do I change from one neutral to the other. Having said that I have ordered a neutral switching device.

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[Hammick]

Isn't neural-ground bonded in the truck, I always have truck neutral or service neutral bonded at the panel, and only after turning off the MCB do I change from one neutral to the other. Having said that I have ordered a neutral switching device.

Correct. My concern was if you forget to put the neutral back when on utility power.

 

[IWIRE]

Correct. My concern was if you forget to put the neutral back when on utility power.

No, I make sure that is first thing I do. Neutral is very important, no neutral and voltage can vary widely from phase A to B, depending on the load.

 

[hturnerfamily]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...utlet-to-power-an-rv.20876/page-3#post-413763


SOLVED:

A) REMOVED the GROUND wire from the extension cord between the truck's 120v bed outlet and the camper's shore cord.

B) I had also previously REMOVED the GFCI outlet/circuit from the camper, replaced with a standard outlet. This had been done to allow the testing of ProPower, or the home's external GFCI outlet, not to 'fight' the camper's own GFCI wiring... a known problem with many owners in the RVing/camping world.

C) the 'bonded' Neutral in the camper's breaker panel remains in place. No change.

This SUCCESS allowed not only the 'basic' electrical power to the outlets, but ALSO to run the microwave and roof air conditioner(15k), successfully, from the truck's ProPower. The pull from the a/c unit while running was about 1,200 watts, maybe 10 amps or so, with a few fans, and the battery converter, also. This was all with 120v power from one of the bed outlets.

I will ultimately also try this with the 240v 30amp outlet in the truck's bed, but for now, with both the microwave AND the a/c unit running successfully from the bed's 120v outlet, it seems like this is not really any urgent need.
While we've tested the output of the truck bed's outlets at all being up to 30 amps, too, using the 240v outlet for a 120v camper probably is unwarranted.

Now, removing the Ground from the wiring between the truck and the camper might seem unsafe, or dangerous, but let's go back a few years when even the standard HOME, itself, did not have outlets with Grounds.
We all know that this was added later to provide a better level of safety, yes, but it's not inherently 'dangerous', any more than your 'older' electric dryer in your home that also does not have a GROUND(three wire type).
The electrical industry has now added them to newer home's wiring schemes, of course, but older homes still use ungrounded dryers everyday, and ungrounded outlets, and can continue to do so.

This 'ungrounded' power usage to the camper is also relatively infrequent. It is only when needed while traveling, under tow, and also periodically if needed while parked, with no utility power source available.


so, in the end, it seems similar to providing 'whole house' power between the truck's 240v outlet and the home's main neutral-bonded panel: the GROUND is what is causing the 'Ground Fault Interruption' tripping of the truck. Without the ground wire, everything works perfectly, in both situations.

 

[Zprime29]

Now, removing the Ground from the wiring between the truck and the camper might seem unsafe, or dangerous, but let's go back a few years when even the standard HOME, itself, did not have outlets with Grounds.
We all know that this was added later to provide a better level of safety, yes, but it's not inherently 'dangerous', any more than your 'older' electric dryer in your home that also does not have a GROUND(three wire type).
The electrical industry has now added them to newer home's wiring schemes, of course, but older homes still use ungrounded dryers everyday, and ungrounded outlets, and can continue to do so.

There's a reason the grounds where added. If there was no inherent danger, they wouldn't have added them. This is like saying it's okay to not wear seat belts because 50 years ago no one did and it was fine.

If you are ok taking the risk, fine. But let's be clear about the fact that there is increased risk with what you are suggesting and not imply that the risk level is the same.

 

[climateguy]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...utlet-to-power-an-rv.20876/page-3#post-413763
Now, removing the Ground from the wiring between the truck and the camper might seem unsafe, or dangerous, but let's go back a few years when even the standard HOME, itself, did not have outlets with Grounds.
We all know that this was added later to provide a better level of safety, yes, but it's not inherently 'dangerous', any more than your 'older' electric dryer in your home that also does not have a GROUND(three wire type).
The electrical industry has now added them to newer home's wiring schemes, of course, but older homes still use ungrounded dryers everyday, and ungrounded outlets, and can continue to do so.

If you become the path for electricity from a circuit to ground when there is no G.F.C.I. protecting the circuit the electricity will flow up to the limit of the circuit breaker before it stops, 20 or 30 amps in the case you are discussing.

In "How various levels of electric shocks affect the body and how to recover" it is stated that 99% of humans cannot let go once they have a current of 22 milliamps flowing into them.

The Office of Congressional Workplace Rights has a pamphlet discussing Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters that states: "An electrical current as small as 10 milliamperes (mA) across the chest of a person is reported to cause the heart to beat irregularly, possibly resulting in death."

I've read in the past that people are not all equally susceptible to serious injury from various levels of electric shock. I couldn't find a reference just now. It seems odd to create a test system in an RV that can result in shocks known to cause death in some individuals, pretending that nothing will ever happen in your case, just because it is a known fact that lot of people got away with taking larger risks than this in past years.

Bob Vila has an article with a list of how regulations around G.F.C.I.s have tightened up over the years as more info became available and the devices became more available and cheaper. His article quotes Electrical Safety Foundation International (ESFI): "electrocutions are down 83 percent since the 1970s when GFCIs were introduced".

P.S. I tested the current flow when my RV microwave was running and the A/C started up. This is the smallest microwave I could find, and a Penguin II A/C rated at 8.6 amps when it is running. Startup is greater. I measured 25 amps. It seems unwise to draw this much plus whatever else might require current such as a fridge, converter, etc., from one of the LIghtning 120v bed outlets that are clearly marked as rated for 20 amps.

 

[v2h8484]

Could I add a small resistive load to the circuit (dimmer)? Not sure I want to replace 20-plus lights.

A small resistive load is unlikely to fix the issue. A big load may help but then it will drain the battery faster.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Now I have found a new problem:

While the dropping of the ground wire in the extension cord seemed to initially solve the ProPower problem...

I do now know what 'difference' there might be between when I 'tested' the ProPower to the camper the other day, and this morning when I went camping:

: the difference was that I was NOT attached to the camper when my final test was accomplished the other day
: today I WAS attached to the camper

so, with that in mind, and certainly not initially thinking that this would have ANY impact on ProPower, what I realize now is that the camper is now 'bonded', or 'grounded' to the truck, via the ball/hitch/truck:camper frame.
AND, I am looking right now at a copper GROUND wire, from the camper's main panel, that is Grounded/bonded to the FRAME.

This makes me think that while the initial drop of the Ground wire in the extension cord between the two worked while 'unhooked' to the camper, now that the camper and truck are 'ONE', this metal-bonded Ground wire might just be the culprit between the two.....
[I have done a lot of research on this 'ground wire to frame' issue for campers, and even different camper manufacturers do it differently. This 'ground wire to frame' is not something I remember seeing from either of my former campers, which worked easily with ProPower. There are many disagreements and differences of opinions, even from electrical professionals, as to whether a camper should have it's 120v main panel's ground 'grounded/bonded' to the camper's metal frame.]

I will know more in the morning, when I get ready to leave this campground, and attach to ProPower again.


update to come...

 

[Maquis]

Now I have found a new problem:

While the dropping of the ground wire in the extension cord seemed to initially solve the ProPower problem...

I do now know what 'difference' there might be between when I 'tested' the ProPower to the camper the other day, and this morning when I went camping:

: the difference was that I was NOT attached to the camper when my final test was accomplished the other day
: today I WAS attached to the camper

so, with that in mind, and certainly not initially thinking that this would have ANY impact on ProPower, what I realize now is that the camper is now 'bonded', or 'grounded' to the truck, via the ball/hitch/truck:camper frame.
AND, I am looking right now at a copper GROUND wire, from the camper's main panel, that is Grounded/bonded to the FRAME.

This makes me think that while the initial drop of the Ground wire in the extension cord between the two worked while 'unhooked' to the camper, now that the camper and truck are 'ONE', this metal-bonded Ground wire might just be the culprit between the two.....
[I have done a lot of research on this 'ground wire to frame' issue for campers, and even different camper manufacturers do it differently. This 'ground wire to frame' is not something I remember seeing from either of my former campers, which worked easily with ProPower. There are many disagreements and differences of opinions, even from electrical professionals, as to whether a camper should have it's 120v main panel's ground 'grounded/bonded' to the camper's metal frame.]

I will know more in the morning, when I get ready to leave this campground, and attach to ProPower again.


update to come...

That’s what I would expect. ProPower ground is connected to truck chassis, panel ground in the camper is bonded to the camper chassis.

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