With onboard NACS, will Tesla V2 stations be available?

[OtterJohn]

I know this is speculation, since no one but Tesla has NACS onboard now...but looking to the future, as Ford and other automakers retool and change out CCS for NACS on the vehicles themselves, will those vehicles then have the ability to utilize V2 stations? There's no "conversion" handshake that would need to happen, in theory, it should just work, right?

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[Pioneer74]

No. The communications protocol of V2 stations prevent their use. Would require Tesla to retrofit their stations.

 

[OtterJohn]

No. The communications protocol of V2 stations prevent their use. Would require Tesla to retrofit their stations.

Interesting, good to know. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[MidAtlanticLightningClub]

I know this is speculation, since no one but Tesla has NACS onboard now...but looking to the future, as Ford and other automakers retool and change out CCS for NACS on the vehicles themselves, will those vehicles then have the ability to utilize V2 stations? There's no "conversion" handshake that would need to happen, in theory, it should just work, right?

No. v3 and v4 Supercharger dispensers literally operate on the CCS protocol. v2 operate on a Tesla-proprietary protocol.

I am not aware of Tesla ever releasing a CCS-compatible version of the V2 Superchargers.

 

[Al_V]

No. v3 and v4 Supercharger dispensers literally operate on the CCS protocol. v2 operate on a Tesla-proprietary protocol.

I am not aware of Tesla ever releasing a CCS-compatible version of the V2 Superchargers.

Future Fords (and others) will have native NACS ports, not CCS, so it might be assumed that they could work on V2 superchargers.

 

[queuewho]

Future Fords (and others) will have native NACS ports, not CCS, so it might be assumed that they could work on V2 superchargers.

Yeah I don't think anyone read the first post. There's no technical reason that a native nacs port on a future non-tesla wouldn't be able to support all the old superchargers. It just depends on if tesla wants to allow that older proprietary communications protocol to be included on those cars.

 

[tls]

Future Fords (and others) will have native NACS ports, not CCS, so it might be assumed that they could work on V2 superchargers.

It might be assumed that gravity would start to pull things upwards. I'll watch and wait.

 

[Adventureboy]

Yeah I don't think anyone read the first post. There's no technical reason that a native nacs port on a future non-tesla wouldn't be able to support all the old superchargers. It just depends on if tesla wants to allow that older proprietary communications protocol to be included on those cars.

It's technically possible, but I doubt Tesla will share the older proprietary protocol. Even if Tesla does open the proprietary protocol, Ford and others would need to develop the patches to be able to use it and supporting old V2 proprietary Tesla protocols on new NACs vehicles will be pretty low on their list of priorities - especially when it makes them dependent on Tesla to make it work.

Tesla may update (or maybe already have updated) the V2 chargers to support native NACS. If so they wouldn't need to maintain both the old proprietary protocol and the NACs protocol on new vehicles to use all of their SCs. In that case, new NACs vehicles that don't rely on CCS protocols may be able to communicate with the charger but they will only charge if Tesla allows it. It is a big "may" since Tesla would still have to build the integration with the NACs network to support V2 chargers and open it for non-Teslas. It's probably not high on Tesla's priority list either.

Cases in timing and priorities - Look how long it took to get V3/V4 SCs to support CCS. Case 2 - look how long it is taking to get Tesla-supplied NACs adapters. Non-Tesla is a low priority.

 

[tls]

Yeah I don't think anyone read the first post. There's no technical reason that a native nacs port on a future non-tesla wouldn't be able to support all the old superchargers. It just depends on if tesla wants to allow that older proprietary communications protocol to be included on those cars.

"That older proprietary communications protocol" is unstandardized and poorly documented at best. The NACS standard specifies CCS signaling. That is what is "native" for NACS. Tesla themselves have had major interoperability problems between their own vehicles and chargers in the past. It runs on different physical pins of the connector than CCS signaling, using different signaling levels.

I am wondering if you have ever implemented a protocol like this. I have, several times. I think your view that there is no technical impediment is not correct.

 

[Al_V]

Tesla is receiving federal money to make superchargers available to non-Tesla vehicles.
Elon isn't being philanthropic.

 

[RickKeen]

To be clear, Tesla V2 chargers are NOT NACS.
(they only use the same physical connector).

Eventually those V2 chargers will fall into less and less usage as newer model EVs demand faster charging speeds using 800v tech and higher power levels. At some point, they will get upgraded/replaced.

 

[Zed]

Future Fords (and others) will have native NACS ports, not CCS, so it might be assumed that they could work on V2 superchargers.

You know what happens when you ASSuME, don't you??

 

[queuewho]

I am wondering if you have ever implemented a protocol like this. I have, several times. I think your view that there is no technical impediment is not correct.

I don't think personal attacks like this are needed here.

Tesla manufactures cars every day that work with that old standard. If they wanted to implement or allow their older comms on other manufacturers products, they absolutely could. I'm sure it's complex, but that's not the point.

Again, there is no technical reason it couldn't be done. It's an engineering/standards question, and if they don't think it's worth it, they won't.

 

[Monkey]

Future Fords (and others) will have native NACS ports, not CCS, so it might be assumed that they could work on V2 superchargers.

Ford would have to, and only if Tesla allows them, create a compatibility mode outside of the NACS specification to operate with the legacy chargers. While I suppose it’s possible, I find it unlikely. Tesla will be replacing all V2 chargers with V4 or newer over the next few years. We don’t have a timeframe, but it seems 2027 was dropped as the goal for having eliminated all the V2 hardware. But that was mentioned before the shakeup and restructuring of the Tesla Supercharger team…. And I think the primary focus since opening their network is on expansion rather than updating things that are not necessarily broken. I do know that V2 pedestals don’t get repaired anymore, only replaced with newer hardware.

 

[tls]

I don't think personal attacks like this are needed here.

Tesla manufactures cars every day that work with that old standard. If they wanted to implement or allow their older comms on other manufacturers products, they absolutely could. I'm sure it's complex, but that's not the point.

Again, there is no technical reason it couldn't be done. It's an engineering/standards question, and if they don't think it's worth it, they won't.

It was certainly not my intention to write anything you would take as a personal attack.
Sorry if I did so.

You made a statement about the technical difficulty of a task I have done several times, but which not a whole lot of other people have. Your statement is wrong, in my view, and I am asking whether you are speaking from experience.

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