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[WTF, North Carolina?] North Carolina’s plan to ban free EV charging is an environmental disgrace [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

Sam James

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Oh, I completely agree who it's targeted at. But in reality it's probably irrelevant, and we shouldn't feed the trolls.

My local municipal free charger had the same car parked at it for a couple hours every single night until they finally changed the rules and started charging $0.12/kwh + $2/hour.

People are unlikely to abuse V2G with their personal vehicles just due to battery wear and tear. But as fleet vehicles become more prevalent it WILL be a problem. And even if people aren't abusing it, as the charging stations get busier people will believe that the "freeloaders" are the reason they had to wait to charge and will complain.
Fair enough points, but the best part is the problem you demonstrated resolved itself. Our company would likely add parking lot tags if it became a problem, for instance. There is zero legitimate reason for this stunt.
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Regular150

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Let's see, when automobiles first came about, the government didn't provide gas stations, the oil companies did. Then private business people later on.

So NC doesn't want to spend it's people's funds for free charging? I totally get that. If theirs a business case, the Electrical companies should be doing it. Tesla has their own correct?
 

Sam James

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Let's see, when automobiles first came about, the government didn't provide gas stations, the oil companies did. Then private business people later on.

So NC doesn't want to spend it's people's funds for free charging? I totally get that. If theirs a business case, the Electrical companies should be doing it. Tesla has their own correct?
Lol, I don't see anyone telling my local Hy-Vee they can't sell me gas for $1/gallon cheaper just because I bought the right lunchmeat at the right time and others didn't. They also installed their own solar and wind mills on top of their free L2 chargers. That would be illegal in NC, why? Solely because one party wants to pull stunts. Again, if they want to ban state funds for state chargers, maybe. It's stupid, but maybe. Private entities and municipalities shouldn't have their hands slapped because they wanted to make their own decisions.
 

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Our local VW dealer has free 24/7 DC fast charging and I've seen nobody abuse this. I seriously doubt this is a material issue. This bill is solely targeted at the perceived enemies of the right and has no regard for the independence of private business or municipalities. Purely a stunt, but these days the stunts become shameful reality.
That said, look at the early arguments over Tesla's Superchargers when it was free. There were HUNDREDS of Tesla drivers (who can absolutely afford electricity!) who drove to the superchargers once every few days and did some work or watched some Netflix while they charged up for free, just because... well... FREE.

The situation got so bad because it blocked travelers from getting on the road again that they had to start sending e-mails to locals telling them not to supercharge locally, which got into legal arguments over "free supercharging forever"... etc...
 

greenne

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V2G is going to kill free charging soon enough anyway. Nobody is going to want to charge somebody up for free so they can go home and sell the power to the grid. And people will absolutely be doing that.

Trying to keep it no politics....I seriously doubt V2G is going to get much traction. I think V2 Home is a possibility, but utilities/government will fight any proposal to allow you to "sell" electricity to the grid.

Hell, most states are doing all they can to discourage residential solar from "selling" to the grid and most of those that do pay at such a low rate it isn't worth the hassle.

Hint: v2G gets in the way of the power company selling you something.. we can't possibly allow the little guy to get in the way of big business
 

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greenne

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It’s pretty simple, they should be providing the infrastructure and services strictly required to perform the given function of the entity. Parking spaces and bathrooms are required. Free charging is not. I don’t have a problem with them installing chargers and charging customers the cost to provide the service without profit.

Why are bathrooms required? People can hold it or go next door to the Quick-E-Mart if they need to go. Buying that toilet paper costs money.

Parking Spaces..ha. Ask anyone who works in NYC...a parking space is most definitely NOT required....
 

Tony Burgh

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Andy, can I have my bullet? NC, sheesh. Reinforcing an old stereotype that Research Triangle is working to eliminate.
 

ivan256

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Trying to keep it no politics....I seriously doubt V2G is going to get much traction. I think V2 Home is a possibility, but utilities/government will fight any proposal to allow you to "sell" electricity to the grid.

Hell, most states are doing all they can to discourage residential solar from "selling" to the grid and most of those that do pay at such a low rate it isn't worth the hassle.

Hint: v2G gets in the way of the power company selling you something.. we can't possibly allow the little guy to get in the way of big business
Plenty of us already have grid tied solar and batteries with net metering. They wouldn't even know.
 

LightningShow

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Why are bathrooms required? People can hold it or go next door to the Quick-E-Mart if they need to go. Buying that toilet paper costs money.

Parking Spaces..ha. Ask anyone who works in NYC...a parking space is most definitely NOT required....
Agreed, end government altogether. It’s not “required”.
 

greenne

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Plenty of us already have grid tied solar and batteries with net metering. They wouldn't even know.
I have grid tied solar in a "1 for 1" credit arrangement. When there is excess, yes I can sell back to the grid for wholesale price which is an absurd sale price of 6c/KwH.

We're talking level 2 so let's say you get ~6.6 KW per hr and you spend a couple hrs at the state museum. You'll burn a KW or two to drive home..so maybe you have 10 KWH left to sell...

So what..all that trouble for 60c or a $1? And that's *IF* you had the perfect setup and knew how to do it.

I'm not seeing the huge cost here. The hypothetical museum probably loses more value from people stealing the pens from the "welcome" desk....
 

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rdr854

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If it is government I agree - should be no free electricity. Private business can do what they want to attract business.

I work at a large company that has about 16 chargers now spread around campus. I also argue there that the charging shouldn't be free. The infrastructure has been very expensive to put in and maintain and 95% of the cars are all Tesla's (which I also currently drive) but I've never once plugged into them.

In more cases than not it is cheap people just wanting free juice. I'll go on record that likely that free charging at work didn't truly make the final decision for any of them to buy the car.

I don't want company provided day care either. It is not an equitable work perk as an example.

If you can offord the higher prices of an EV you can afford to charge - it is already a drop n the bucket compared to gas.
I respectfully disagree. Benefits packages are just as important as salary to attract and retain good employees. It is far more expensive (and disruptive) to lose employees and have to go through the hiring and training process of a new employee. We all know that there are many benefits that are provided by government and private employers - whether it be healthcare, fitness rooms and club memberships, subsidized or free parking, subsidized public transportation, free EV charging, coffee, meals, etc. In the grand scheme of things, EV charging is a drop in the bucket.
 

LightningShow

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Sure.. because that ALWAY ends well...
What’s your point? Are you going to make a coherent argument why free vehicle fueling is a reasonably required service? Parking and bathrooms clearly are and in many cases are required by regulation.
 

greenne

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What’s your point? Are you going to make a coherent argument why free vehicle fueling is a reasonably required service? Parking and bathrooms clearly are and in many cases are required by regulation.
My point is very few things are required. (See note about parking).

What is required has little overall impact on what is offered. People(managers) make judgement calls all the time on what is prudent or in the best interest of the organization.

WRT public entities most services are provided for the good of the visitors/employees.. not what is required. The state is wasting taxpayer money trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Typical government BS....waste money to argue about something else you think is "wasting" money.

More to the point....making the argument that we should end all government because you don't agree with what they are doing is ludicrous....
 

LightningShow

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My point is very few things are required. (See note about parking).

What is required has little overall impact on what is offered. People(managers) make judgement calls all the time on what is prudent or in the best interest of the organization.

WRT public entities most services are provided for the good of the visitors/employees.. not what is required. The state is wasting taxpayer money trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Typical government BS....waste money to argue about something else you think is "wasting" money.

More to the point....making the argument that we should end all government because you don't agree with what they are doing is ludicrous....
Well, it was a coherent response but not well reasoned. Let’s give all visitors to government buildings free ice cream, it will really raise their spirits. It’s just like providing bathrooms!
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