Dumb question maybe, but where does the $80,000 "cap" number for the EV credit come from

[jb56]

So I've seen a lot of people try to get their lightning under the $80,000 cap. If the cap is $80,000, that is frustrating, because my Lariat + build keeps coming in just north of that. But I've been doing a lot of digging and I can't find any current $80,000 cap. All I can find about $80,000 is based on potential future bills that are paused or dead at this point. All of the current credits talk about a phaseout when the manufacturer has sold 200,000 EVs.

Can anyone clarify for me? Is there actually an $80,000 cap on EV price now? So if my Lariat + were closer to $81,000, I would lose the $7500 credit? Or, if my Lariat + is closer to $81,000, it just might disqualify me from getting the bigger credit that was proposed under the Biden build back better bill?

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[tbinmd]

Right now the EV credit is $7500 until the manufacture sells 200,000 vehicles. Tesla and GM no longer qualify for the credit. Ford is close to having it phased out. I've seen some sources say Ford will be done this year. Once that happens no more credit. A new bill would need to be put forward, who knows what that would be based on at this point.

 

[sotek2345]

You are correct, the $80k limit was in the new bill (which is stalled). No limit for the current credit.

For the new law - as written it is a cliff $80k (full credit below, nothing above) and may be retroactive for all of 2022 if it passes. Given this, many (myself included) want to stay under the $80k to play it safe.

That said - who knows what, if anything, will pass congress at this point.

 

[Sklith]

Ford is close to having it phased out. I've seen some sources say Ford will be done this year. Once that happens no more credit.

When Ford reaches 200k the credit doesn't immediately disappear. Instead, it will halve for two quarters, and then be done.

 

[sotek2345]

When Ford reaches 200k the credit doesn't immediately disappear. Instead, it will halve for two quarters, and then be done.

Nope - 1/2 ($3,750) for 2 quarters, and then 1/4 for 2 quarters ($1,875)

 

[Sklith]

Nope - 1/2 ($3,750) for 2 quarters, and then 1/4 for 2 quarters ($1,875)

My bad, still not immediate though.

 

[F150ROD]

The cap might not include destination/delivery

 

[Carminus]

Keep in mind the current $7500 is a tax credit if you pay $7500 or more in taxes (which most do if your buying a 80k truck). In other words, if you only pay $6000 a year in taxes your only get $6000.

The BBB bill did pass congress but stalled in Senate because of Joe Manchin (D) from West Virginia. They need all Democrats to vote yes, but he refused because he a fossil fuel guy as his business is in coal. So the bill stalled without his support.

As Biden aka Brandon support dwindles so does the chances of this bill passing. Honestly, with inflation I am not a fan of spending more money but at the same time it would not pass up taking $12,500 off at the Point of Sale vs waiting a year for my tax return.

I was able to keep my Lariat down to 79k not sure why the OP was having a problem with it. Granted, I didn't have a ADM on mine either. The ADM is line E24 "Difference from total msrp"

Lariat with extended battery, All terrain tires and tough bed

• • Base MSRP
    E11
    $67,474.00
  • Total Options
    E125
    $10,745.00
  • Destination and Delivery Charges
    E22
    $1,695.00
  • Total MSRP
    E123
    $79,914.00
  • Difference from Total MSRP
    E24
    $0.00
  • Dealer Selling Price
    E20
    $79,914.00
• Order Deposit
  E134
  $500.00
• Estimated Cash Price
  E36
  $79,414.00
• 
  
• options details
  
  • 275/60R20 BSW All-Terrain Tires
    $150.00
  • Ford Charge Station Pro
  • High 511A
    $10,000.00
  • Single-Speed Transmission
  • Bedliner – Tough Bed Spray-In
    $595.00
  • Configured Options
    $10,745.00
  
  
  
  

 

[sotek2345]

Keep in mind the current $7500 is a tax credit if you pay $7500 or more in taxes (which most do if your buying a 80k truck). In other words, if you only pay $6000 a year in taxes your only get $6000.

The BBB bill did pass congress but stalled in Senate because of Joe Manchin (D) from West Virginia. They need all Democrats to vote yes, but he refused because he a fossil fuel guy as his business is in coal. So the bill stalled without his support.

As Biden aka Brandon support dwindles so does the chances of this bill passing. Honestly, with inflation I am not a fan of spending more money but at the same time it would not pass up taking $12,500 off at the Point of Sale vs waiting a year for my tax return.

I was able to keep my Lariat down to 79k not sure why the OP was having a problem with it. Granted, I didn't have a ADM on mine either. The ADM is line E24 "Difference from total msrp"

Lariat with extended battery, All terrain tires and tough bed

• • Base MSRP
    E11
    $67,474.00
  • Total Options
    E125
    $10,745.00
  • Destination and Delivery Charges
    E22
    $1,695.00
  • Total MSRP
    E123
    $79,914.00
  • Difference from Total MSRP
    E24
    $0.00
  • Dealer Selling Price
    E20
    $79,914.00
• Order Deposit
  E134
  $500.00
• Estimated Cash Price
  E36
  $79,414.00
• 
  
• options details
  • 275/60R20 BSW All-Terrain Tires
    $150.00
  • Ford Charge Station Pro
  • High 511A
    $10,000.00
  • Single-Speed Transmission
  • Bedliner – Tough Bed Spray-In
    $595.00
  • Configured Options
    $10,745.00
• 
  
  

Lots of folks adding Max Tow which pushes it over.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

This was never a thing and was never going to be a thing. Some folks around here refused to understand reality so bloviated endlessly about a proposed tax bill that never had a chance of being passed - that bill, which never got to the point of serious negotiation, would have had a limit of $80k MSRP in some iterations. However, the long standing existing federal EV tax credit remains operative at $7,500, with no purchase price limitation. This will run out for Ford next year, as it did for Tesla in 2019.

If you have a very early reservation you may get the $7,500 credit, assuming you otherwise qualify, taken as a credit on your personal tax return for 2022. There will be no federal credit available for 2023 Ford EV purchasers given current ramp-up plans, so the only real question is the mix of early deliveries - the more Mach-E's delivered early this year, the fewer Lightning purchasers will qualify for the 2022 credit, or will have a reduced credit. Given the history with other marques running out of credits, MSRP pricing may be adjusted downward if demand slackens as a result of the credits lapsing.

 

[Sealevel]

Ironically, the sales of more BEVs is a boon for coal as some/most of the electricity generated in the US is from coal fired plants. Though this is moving more to NG, Solar and Wind with legacy Nuclear and Water. So, Manchin is not doing his Coal Country much good - but it does help the Oil Patch.

 

[Maquis]

Ironically, the sales of more BEVs is a boon for coal as some/most of the electricity generated in the US is from coal fired plants. Though this is moving more to NG, Solar and Wind with legacy Nuclear and Water. So, Manchin is not doing his Coal Country much good - but it does help the Oil Patch.

The last time I looked (2019, I think), US electricity production was 19% coal and dropping. It’s probably even lower today.

 

[Blainestang]

Nope - 1/2 ($3,750) for 2 quarters, and then 1/4 for 2 quarters ($1,875)

AND there's a whole quarter AFTER the manufacturer hits 200,000 that buyers still get the full credit.

So, if Ford hits 200,000 in the middle of Q3, then the rest of Q3 and all of Q4 will still be $7,500. Then Q1/Q2 of 2023 will be $3750, and Q3/Q4 of 2023 will be $1,875.

 

[Carminus]

<snip> This will run out for Ford next year, as it did for Tesla in 2019.

If you have a very early reservation you may get the $7,500 credit, assuming you otherwise qualify, taken as a credit on your personal tax return for 2022. There will be no federal credit available for 2023 Ford EV purchasers given current ramp-up plans, so the only real question is the mix of early deliveries - the more Mach-E's delivered early this year, the fewer Lightning purchasers will qualify for the 2022 credit, or will have a reduced credit. Given the history with other marques running out of credits, MSRP pricing may be adjusted downward if demand slackens as a result of the credits lapsing.

Looking at some numbers.... Ford sold 27,140 Mach E's last year (source: https://insideevs.com/news/558927/us-ford-mache-sales-2021/) that said even *if* they sell another 27-30k in 2022 and project another 30k in 2023 that would be 90k total between 2021-2023. Which would leave about 110k rebates for lighting owners for 2022-? given the max is 200,000.

Right now we can only guess when the rebate will be used up. Maybe the mindset should be as if you were not getting a rebate at all.

 

[sotek2345]

Looking at some numbers.... Ford sold 27,140 Mach E's last year (source: https://insideevs.com/news/558927/us-ford-mache-sales-2021/) that said even *if* they sell another 27-30k in 2022 and project another 30k in 2023 that would be 90k total between 2021-2023. Which would leave about 110k rebates for lighting owners for 2022-? given the max is 200,000.

Right now we can only guess when the rebate will be used up. Maybe the mindset should be as if you were not getting a rebate at all.

You are forgetting all of the other vehicles that count for the credit (all plug in hybrids count as well). Ford has less than 40k left as of the end of 2021. Mach-e, Lightning, Transit (electric), and all plug in hybrids will continue to count against that, so they will hit it sometime this year.

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

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