Pro Charging Station to NEMA 14-50

[shutterbug]

What about things that were to code in 1960 when a house was built, but certainly not there currently?

Sorry, but are you planning to install '60 vintage EVSE?

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[VTbuckeye]

Sorry, but are you planning to install '60 vintage EVSE?

No, I already have two 30 amp EVSEs in the unfinished garage with 8 guage Romex.

 

[ExCivilian]

Dumb question. Could this plug into my dryer outlet in the garage,

The 100A Pro Charger will not "plug into" anything--it doesn't terminate in a plug. Within the first few responses to your original question, someone mentioned that you could retrofit a plug to the wires and plug it in (to your 14-50).

That plan, however, creates a few issues: the wires coming from the 100A charger are going to be massive compared to any regular plug you find at a DIY supply store (it's not an aesthetic issue--you may well find the gauge of the wires is so different that there aren't approved connectors for them; that's intentional in order to prevent this kind of wiring bootlegging), the ground/neutral of a hardwired system won't match the plug's (hardwired tend to have 2+1g whereas the NEMA outlet you're asking about will be 3+g and you'll be missing a neutral wire), these types of outlets (both the 14-50 and whatever dryer outlet you have) aren't rated for consistent plug/unplug cycles. The last two factors are why EV installers tend to "frown" on such installs as someone mentioned.

The problem with hiring someone to do this work is that a licensed electrician doing permitted work is unlikely, in my experience, to listen to the customer who wants to install a wire run that can handle 100A but then put a 60A breaker on end and tie it to a 50A outlet and then plug in a 100A EVSE. If the amps the EVSE can be charged at aren't user adjustable you might get someone to go along with that install, but if it's simply controlled by the app then I can't imagine someone touching that with a ten-foot pole. Not because the code says no, but because their liability insurance and good business sense will tell them no.

After that's all installed and you intentionally (because you don't know better or don't care) or accidentally (because it's an easy slider in the app) there isn't anything preventing the system from becoming a fire risk. That's the simplest explanation for why electricians tend to wire things up to the lowest common denominator where someone is physically limited from accidentally plug something in wrong (shape of the plug compared to outlet) or try to indicate that the outlet not be mis-used (some older installs just did whatever, then electricians started labeling 14-50s as "for EVSE ONLY," and some just went ahead and laid an extra wire).

When it's all said and done, after you've finally convinced someone to do all this work what you'll likely find is that you have a 100A EVSE on a circuit that can't handle more than 50A and that you better hope it's too difficult to adjust the current (or that the device itself doesn't fail). OR you have an overbuilt (and expensive) 100A circuit for an EVSE that will never need to go above 30A to suit your needs.

Keep in mind, all of this headache is circumvented by using the 120/240 EVSE also provided for free by Ford, which does plug into a standard outlet, a 20A outlet (which are often found in garages), the dryer outlet you're asking about, and a 14-50 outlet that your landlord already approved...and all for a fraction of the size of the relatively huge/bulky 100A charger.

 

[Amps]

and I don't mean to discount what people might read in the 'code', but my experience over many years does not negate what the breaker size SAYS on the breaker, itself. If it's a 50amp breaker, it's designed to handle 50amps of power, that's why it says so. If the code did not allow it to, it would not be allowed to be printed on it. Have fun! It's not really that complicated.

This is incorrect. There are good reasons for the continuous load rating.

Please don't spread misinformation. You be you at your home. Please only offer NEC accepted solutions for others, for several good reasons stated in previous posts.

 

[hturnerfamily]

understood, but no one is coming here for my, or your, electrical expertise, nor are we providing it to them - we are arguing points, which we disagree on. Some will argue the virtue of the newest 'codes', while others will talk from experience and common sense.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The 100A Pro Charger will not "plug into" anything--it doesn't terminate in a plug. Within the first few responses to your original question, someone mentioned that you could retrofit a plug to the wires and plug it in (to your 14-50).

That plan, however, creates a few issues: the wires coming from the 100A charger are going to be massive compared to any regular plug you find at a DIY supply store (it's not an aesthetic issue--you may well find the gauge of the wires is so different that there aren't approved connectors for them; that's intentional in order to prevent this kind of wiring bootlegging), the ground/neutral of a hardwired system won't match the plug's (hardwired tend to have 2+1g whereas the NEMA outlet you're asking about will be 3+g and you'll be missing a neutral wire), these types of outlets (both the 14-50 and whatever dryer outlet you have) aren't rated for consistent plug/unplug cycles. The last two factors are why EV installers tend to "frown" on such installs as someone mentioned.

The problem with hiring someone to do this work is that a licensed electrician doing permitted work is unlikely, in my experience, to listen to the customer who wants to install a wire run that can handle 100A but then put a 60A breaker on end and tie it to a 50A outlet and then plug in a 100A EVSE. If the amps the EVSE can be charged at aren't user adjustable you might get someone to go along with that install, but if it's simply controlled by the app then I can't imagine someone touching that with a ten-foot pole. Not because the code says no, but because their liability insurance and good business sense will tell them no.

After that's all installed and you intentionally (because you don't know better or don't care) or accidentally (because it's an easy slider in the app) there isn't anything preventing the system from becoming a fire risk. That's the simplest explanation for why electricians tend to wire things up to the lowest common denominator where someone is physically limited from accidentally plug something in wrong (shape of the plug compared to outlet) or try to indicate that the outlet not be mis-used (some older installs just did whatever, then electricians started labeling 14-50s as "for EVSE ONLY," and some just went ahead and laid an extra wire).

When it's all said and done, after you've finally convinced someone to do all this work what you'll likely find is that you have a 100A EVSE on a circuit that can't handle more than 50A and that you better hope it's too difficult to adjust the current (or that the device itself doesn't fail). OR you have an overbuilt (and expensive) 100A circuit for an EVSE that will never need to go above 30A to suit your needs.

Keep in mind, all of this headache is circumvented by using the 120/240 EVSE also provided for free by Ford, which does plug into a standard outlet, a 20A outlet (which are often found in garages), the dryer outlet you're asking about, and a 14-50 outlet that your landlord already approved...and all for a fraction of the size of the relatively huge/bulky 100A charger.

I probably should have clarified.

I don't think I'll be installing the pro since I'm in a short term rental. I was referring to the mobile charging unit that comes with it, does that just plug into a dryer outlet is it the same plug?

 

[Amps]

One of the downsides of EV adoption is going to be housefires. Why? Because of many reasons, some of which are identified in this thread. People are going to plug into dryer outlets not designed for the load, and wires are going to overheat, and houses are going to burn. That's just reality.

I strongly recommend to anyone that asks me about installing an EV charger, or outlet for a charger, that they both hire an electrician AND insist on an inspection.

^^ This right here. There are going to be fires. Make sure your 'paperwork' is in order.

I can't think of any traditional home electrical load comparable to using an 80 Amp EVSE to charge a 131 kWh Lightning extended range battery. Even a good sized electric tankless water heater won't be pulling a continuous 20kW for an hour, let alone six hours.

 

[ExCivilian]

I probably should have clarified.

I don't think I'll be installing the pro since I'm in a short term rental. I was referring to the mobile charging unit that comes with it, does that just plug into a dryer outlet is it the same plug?

I've been under the impression you intended to use the 100A EVSE this whole time! If you're only intending to use the 120/240v "mobile" charger it'll have a 14-50 plug on the end.

I didn't see all the posts in this thread. Did you post a picture of your dryer outlet? It could be a 14-50 that the EVSE will plug right into. It could also be any variety of 30A outlets, one of which could match this layout of this adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZL1JLF...=xrSPH&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0_title

If that one doesn't work, there are plenty of other adapters. That's just one example of a viable solution to your question.

You'll also want to be mindful of the issue I raised earlier about too many plug/unplugs into the outlet than it's rated to handle. Eventually the contact points inside the outlet wear creating a fire risk. One solution is to use some type of splitter that shares the outlet with the dryer and EVSE both plugged in at the same time. Another solution is to do what you originally planned and wire a 14-50 socket into the garage. And some people just ignore the risk altogether.

 

[Maquis]

What about things that were to code in 1960 when a house was built, but certainly not there currently?

Nothing requires anything that was installed per code in effect at the time it was installed to be brought up to current. There are a couple of obscure exceptions. I’ve fought this with home inspectors a couple times even though they should know better.

Anything you add today must meet today’s code. Some repairs can be done as-is but some are required to be brought up to current code. A licensed electrician will know all the nuances and exceptions.

 

[jefro]

I'd suspect that if one pulled a permit and had a professional electrician install some change then to get the permit signed off they might need to change stuff. If the local wanted to and your evse plugged in you may have to provide a GFCI outlet.

The EVSE that ships I am thinking would be a 120V 12A or 8A selectable charger on the Extended battery. The other model may ship with a dual voltage.??

 

[FlasherZ]

What about things that were to code in 1960 when a house was built, but certainly not there currently?

In most cases, it can be determined what things looked like. The entire run of the circuit is unlikely to have been completely destroyed, so it's likely they can determine what was there and what wasn't.

My parents' home was built in 1884. They still have some knob and tube wiring from the early 30's, some cloth-covered Romex from the 50's, some white-with-pink stripe Romex from the 90's, and some of the new color-coded Romex from the 2000's - and so can forensics inspectors.

 

[FlasherZ]

Nothing requires anything that was installed per code in effect at the time it was installed to be brought up to current. There are a couple of obscure exceptions. I’ve fought this with home inspectors a couple times even though they should know better.

Anything you add today must meet today’s code. Some repairs can be done as-is but some are required to be brought up to current code. A licensed electrician will know all the nuances and exceptions.

Correct in most cases, and permit trails (where required) help to identify what was in effect at the time. The one exception - in some jurisdictions - is where unpermitted work was done. Let's say that 20 years ago someone added a circuit to the home but never pulled a permit, and it doesn't match current code - some AHJ's can require the addition to be ripped out, or brought up to current code.

Now - in my county, electrical permits are not required... and in the county east of mine, they still don't use building permits. It's rather difficult to enforce anything here, but insurance companies can still try.

 

[Maquis]

Correct in most cases, and permit trails (where required) help to identify what was in effect at the time. The one exception - in some jurisdictions - is where unpermitted work was done. Let's say that 20 years ago someone added a circuit to the home but never pulled a permit, and it doesn't match current code - some AHJ's can require the addition to be ripped out, or brought up to current code.

Now - in my county, electrical permits are not required... and in the county east of mine, they still don't use building permits. It's rather difficult to enforce anything here, but insurance companies can still try.

Yeah…permits here are only required for totally new construction. We have no trail!

 

[Ruination]

Off topic:

Can you backfeed with the lightning?

I'f I installed an interlock could I run a cable from my bed to a designated plug?

 

[jefro]

If one protected the power line workers with an interlock or device such as an ABT or MBT or a dedicated generator input box then yes, one could supply power to home/shop.

When you say back feed it makes me wonder now. Generally circuit breakers do work in a back feed but they actually have or had them by design.

A great thing about a EV is you can easily run them in a garage and no CO gas problem.

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