Is Solar / Sunrun a Good Deal for You? Calculations and Things to Consider

[Sdctcher]

Lots of discussion about using your new Lightning to power your home. But this would require an upfront investment (SunRun or Other) of up to $40,000 for an 8-10 KW System. A system of this size would be required for a larger home. If you do not buy it for cash you will also pay interest and have increasing depreciation over the next 25 years. Also add in some maintenance costs each year. It is debatable on how much value the system will add in home resale value. It depends on the market and finding buyers who value solar.

The value of the system can increase depending on whether your utility allows net metering where they "buy-back" unused energy but currently most of those rates are about 50% of what they charge you for delivering energy to you. Currently, the national trend is many utilities are trying to decrease net metering rates or add surcharges for solar. Also, is your home roof surface large enough (10kw = 600sf of panels) and steep enough (nominal 40%) to accommodate the panels required?

Lightning ER in a Power Outage

Thunder & Lightning and my power goes out for a few minutes or hours on a hot day. So I back up my truck to the house and string enough extension cords to power my fridge to keep my beer cold, run my TV and Modem so I can You Tube the Tornado coming at me, and power my cheap fan to keep Momma cool and collected.

At this point I could describe a method I have done for years (with my generator) although it is both dangerous and stupid unless you know what you are doing. So read on if you are one of these types of person.
******************************************
I flip my panel utility-to-home disconnect to Off. I plug in my generator NEMA 14-50 outlet to my dedicated NEMA 14-50 panel input circuit (with a 60 amp breaker) in my carport. Normally I use this circuit to run my welder or plug in my trailer. I then just monitor my usage. I cannot run more than one 240v (furnace/dryer/stove/water heater) appliance at a time. I used this method back in 2011 during an 11 day ice storm outage.
*******************************************
OR

I could connect my Ford Charge Staion Pro (Free with Purchase) to my Sunrun Home Integration System ($3,895.00 + Tax) + Installation ($1,000+ ?). And if I want to go all out and impress my neighbors I can add a Solar System (10kw $30,000) and Battery (10kw $10,000) to capture unused solar production to net meter back to my utility at about 50% of their retail cost to me.

Seldom would an outage last longer unless you subscribe to various "Web Facts".

A discussion of the investment value of a related solar system is a whole other matter. It would involve where you live, the configuration of your roof, whether you can even use net metering, maintenance and depreciation costs, home resale value, tax credits (26% and decreasing) and interest costs (5% and increasing) if not purchased for cash.

I demand that people call me an Elder, not Elderly, so I can use the RMD (the required minimum distribution is the minimum amount you must withdraw from your IRA each year) to help pay for my Lightning.

I felt bad that I was cashing in to pay for my frivolous Lightning so instead of paying cash (I am financing for a short period instead) I reinvested it in solar after calculating all the options mentioned above to power my recharging. I have no need to power my home in an emergency because I already have a Generac 22kw Propane (+ a 500 gallon tank loaded with $1.50/gal. gas) Whole Home Generator.

My Solar Purchase (25 Year License) was as follows:

Kentucky Touchstone Energy Cooperative Solar Farm One
46 Panels 5 X 3 Feet (Each 460w Q-Cell @21% Efficiency)
Producing 22,000 kWh/Year (My Annual Usage) 530,000 kWh over 25 Years.
My Cost was $21,160.00.

I am currently credited $0.07/kWh on my bill (the current total retail rate is $0.10/kWh) for my solar production. The difference is they do all maintenance, transmission, and upgrades for the next 25 years. If rates stay the same my return over 25 years will be $31,740. But rates will not stay the same. At an inflation rate of 3%/year my return would be $56,000.00. The utility will buy my production from me at increasing market rates for solar. I have a minimal charge for a buy back and my license will continue for the next 25 years on my farm for my son and his son in case I do not live until age 105. In addition, each year I am credited 22 Solar renewable energy certificates (SREC). (I earn one SREC for every megawatt hour (MWh), or 1,000 kilowatt hours (kWhs), of electricity my solar farm system generates). The SREC value fluctuates in the national marketplace but currently, in my state, it is about $500.00/year, and forecasted to greatly increase in coming years.

My upside is that panels at my home (surrounded by trees) would not work. All solar production is utilized to the max, not just what I use. I do nothing except watch my electric bill decrease to a credit over the years and I charge my Lightning basically for free as long as I charge at home.

This solution worked for me and every individual case is different.

My point is run the numbers. Why would you invest in Sunrun or Solar? What problem are you trying to solve? Does it make sense for you? Believe the Numbers - Not the Hype. Do Not get caught up by emotion.

Sponsored

 

[Tenetke]

I invested in solar and battery solely for getting a CT. The Ford Lightning came out and I reserved, then ordered it. I'm currently waiting for the rail car to arrive and then the convoy to my dealership.
My rate for financing the solar is .9% and the benefits are immeasurable. Power outages have increased in my area over the past 5 years and so have the rates. My battery system took awhile to be installed. Now that it has been online for the past two and a half months, my electric bill is sitting at a credit of $377.
I look forward to charging from solar! In the past two months I have not experienced the same 3 outages my neighbors have had. Locking in my utility rates was something I wish I had done earlier. And the 26% solar tax benefits are hard to pass up. Also, my panels are ground mounted and near my meter and shop.

 

[PV2EV]

In our area there are outages for hours, a few times days, and in the worst case, 8 days while flooded in for 3 weeks. Depending on a generator that can and will fail is another thing to consider in the value proposition.

Sunrun is charging $6k for the install. Solar really sweetens this deal, if you can install enough to make sense. For some solar would be a requirement, for others, it is just not worth it.

 

[Roy2001]

Good analysis. I am with the famous or notorious PG&E in Northern California. At this moment, minimum price of of tier 1 is $0.31/kWh. So our average would be close to $0.4/kWh.

Fortunately state government asks them to apply net metering. I need to pay $10/month grid fee, and then $0.03 delivery charge for the credit being used back. For non used credit (the electricity sent to grid after net metering) PG&E only pay $0.04/kWh (while retail is $0.31/kWh or higher).

So I can use grid as a free unlimited battery. There is no point to spend thousands to install the system. $9400 is super high. I am actually curious if Tesla's $11k single battery system could be used with F150.

I can see if you have solar panel and utility company pays you a few cents when you send to grid and charges you much higher retail price, then it worth to install the system. For me I only need to use it as a generator, and I only need to use it once every few years. I don't need the $9400 system.

 

[biers]

We have net metering available but retail rates are $0.0816 a kWh 24/7. So the breakeven would be decades.

In the 20 years I have lived here we have had maybe 5 outages lasting for a combine 7 hours....over 20 years. As much as I want solar and the auto battery backup, it just isn't worth it where I live. I did get my 14L-30 plug installed last weekend along with an interlock so I can use the 7.2kW from the 240 outlet for that 21 minutes out outage we have each year.

 

[Sdctcher]

We have net metering available but retail rates are $0.0816 a kWh 24/7. So the breakeven would be decades.

In the 20 years I have lived here we have had maybe 5 outages lasting for a combine 7 hours....over 20 years. As much as I want solar and the auto battery backup, it just isn't worth it where I live. I did get my 14L-30 plug installed last weekend along with an interlock so I can use the 7.2kW from the 240 outlet for that 21 minutes out outage we have each year.

https://portablepowerguides.com/average-generator-interlock-installation-cost/

Transfer Switch vs. Interlock

https://www.nooutage.com//interlock_kits.htm

Panel Interlock Kits

 

[VTbuckeye]

Our net metering has changed over the years, but currently and for the past few years the utility pays you about $0.01/kWh less than retail, however the customer charge aka grid connection fee is 0.51/day is non-offsetable and the net metering credits expire one year after they are generated. The past 5+years we were part of a CSA (community solar array) aka grid tied group net metering. The whole CSA was purchased by a local farm and now we are getting solar on our roof. Our rooftop array will be larger than we are currently using, though it is difficult to tell how much it will increase with the lightning. If we overproduce I am ok contributing to the community my extra production. Every bit of energy produced by the sun is less that we need from other sources. We will also be getting battery backup when the solar system is installed (utility has a program with reduced price batteries). The utility also lets us sell battery power back to them when grid prices are high/demand is high.

 

[GoGoGadgetTruck]

@Sdctcher I had literally never heard of SRECs until your post, not even from my solar installer, so TIL and thank you for what would essentially be newly found "free" money. Now I have to see if my state approves my application.

 

[Sdctcher]

Our net metering has changed over the years, but currently and for the past few years the utility pays you about $0.01/kWh less than retail, however the customer charge aka grid connection fee is 0.51/day is non-offsetable and the net metering credits expire one year after they are generated. The past 5+years we were part of a CSA (community solar array) aka grid tied group net metering. The whole CSA was purchased by a local farm and now we are getting solar on our roof. Our rooftop array will be larger than we are currently using, though it is difficult to tell how much it will increase with the lightning. If we overproduce I am ok contributing to the community my extra production. Every bit of energy produced by the sun is less that we need from other sources. We will also be getting battery backup when the solar system is installed (utility has a program with reduced price batteries). The utility also lets us sell battery power back to them when grid prices are high/demand is high.

The whole system of solar is very confusing and differs by both state and utility so you have to do quite a bit of digging and research before committing $$$. From experience DO NOT BELIEVE what every salesman and company tries to feed you to sell you something that will not fit.

 

[Sdctcher]

@Sdctcher I had literally never heard of SRECs until your post, not even from my solar installer, so TIL and thank you for what would essentially be newly found "free" money. Now I have to see if my state approves my application.

https://news.energysage.com/srecs-complete-overview/

What is an SREC?
Solar renewable energy certificates (SRECs) are a performance-based solar incentive that allow you to earn additional income from solar electricity generation. As a homeowner, you can earn one SREC for every megawatt hour (MWh), or 1,000 kilowatt hours (kWhs), of electricity your solar panel system generates.

SRECs exist because of state regulations known as renewable portfolio standards (RPS), which require utilities to produce a specific percentage of their electricity from renewable resources. To meet these requirements, utilities purchase renewable energy certificates (RECs) (also known as renewable energy credits): these certificates serve as proof that they have either produced renewable electricity themselves, or paid someone who is producing renewable electricity for the right to “count” that green electricity as their own generation.

Every state is different and it is easier to have your utility sell yours. The value differs greatly by region and month-to-month. My state does not have a marketplace yet so I signed mine over to the utility to sell in adjoining states that have Reciprocity Agreements.

 

[VTbuckeye]

The whole system of solar is very confusing and differs by both state and utility so you have to do quite a bit of digging and research before committing $$$. From experience DO NOT BELIEVE what every salesman and company tries to feed you to sell you something that will not fit.

I don't trust all of the sales guys. I was a little bit amused by their math sometimes. One of said based on our most recent electric bill that their proposed system would produce 106 percent of our yearly usage (9.1MW/9.6MW) , but when I looked our usage fluctuates more than that and our most recent year was over 9.8MW. in addition they knew that we were adding the lightning. Our EV went from a Chevy bolt (250w/mile) to a Volvo xc40 EV (340??w/mile). Our xc90t8 gets about 15 to 18 miles of range (summer on 6kw). We go though the same 6kw in the winter, but add in some gas. I am not worried about a bit of overproduction...We will find a way to use it (adding heat pump for HVAC in the next year or two).

 

[Sdctcher]

I don't trust all of the sales guys. I was a little bit amused by their math sometimes. One of said based on our most recent electric bill that their proposed system would produce 106 percent of our yearly usage (9.1MW/9.6MW) , but when I looked our usage fluctuates more than that and our most recent year was over 9.8MW. in addition they knew that we were adding the lightning. Our EV went from a Chevy bolt (250w/mile) to a Volvo xc40 EV (340??w/mile). Our xc90t8 gets about 15 to 18 miles of range (summer on 6kw). We go though the same 6kw in the winter, but add in some gas. I am not worried about a bit of overproduction...We will find a way to use it (adding heat pump for HVAC in the next year or two).

Quoting your annual electric usage means very little unless calculations are also added in for battery storage and/or net metering (including differing rates for Time-of-Use and net vs. gross rates including taxes, fees, & surcharges by the utility). The system you buy may produce 10 kw/8 hour day but if you only use 3 kw during that time period the rest is wasted.

Also, most salesmen will not tell you that you must climb your roof at least a couple of times/year to clean your panels of soot and pollen for maximum production (a good reason to buy ground-based arrays). If you lease panels, many times this maintenance is required under contract. And sometimes the company will also sell you an extended warranty to exclusively do this chore for you (they call it servicing).

 

[PV2EV]

We have net metering available but retail rates are $0.0816 a kWh 24/7. So the breakeven would be decades.

In the 20 years I have lived here we have had maybe 5 outages lasting for a combine 7 hours....over 20 years. As much as I want solar and the auto battery backup, it just isn't worth it where I live. I did get my 14L-30 plug installed last weekend along with an interlock so I can use the 7.2kW from the 240 outlet for that 21 minutes out outage we have each year.

As covered in many other threads on this site and elsewhere (YouTube), an interlock won't work with pro power. You need a generator transfer switch/critical loads panel.

I think the consideration for the HIS is system is the following:

1. Do you have long enough outages, or dependency on power that you need backup. For me, being on well is the tipping point, as no power AND no water sucks!

2. Is the truck battery enough, or do you need solar to charge the battery during the day (if in fact HIS does this, we still don't know for sure).

3. Do you have a use case otherwise, say a off grid cabin that you can power with solar, and when you are there, with the truck.

 

[Sdctcher]

OK - Let's see if I have this right.

With my $80K Lightning Lariat ER I have a giant 131kW Battery in my driveway.

The Grid goes down and I want to use my stored Lightning DC electricity in my house.

Ford gave me a "Free" Ford 80a Charge Station Pro cord to get the juice to the house.

Now I need to pay Sunrun $3,895.00 for the hardware and software to convert my juice back to AC, automatically shutoff the connection to the grid, terminate the feed from my truck when power comes back, and hook me up automatically once again to the grid to recharge my truck.

But, depending on whether my house is old with a 40A panel or whether it is new with a 200A/ 400A panel, my installed price may be another $4,000 - $10,000 (depending on whether I hire Sunrun or a cheaper, less experienced local).

Now, I'm good, but for how long without a backup source of juice (solar), other than my truck? The answer is up to 131 kW if I run my battery down to zero.

Yesterday, the local temperature was a high of 84 and a low of 64. My 3,500 square foot Energy-Efficient home used a total of 52 kWh with a peak of 5.397 kW at 8pm. I did not use my electric stove or clothes dryer; only running my geothermal cooling system and connected water heater for a few hours late in the day. On a really warm day I will often top 100 kWh.

So, after spending a fair amount of money to turn my Lightning into a usable backup power supply, I will be covered for 1.5 - 2.5 days, if I am careful.

I will have to think about whether this is a good use for my money or I am just fine with just using my truck as a truck.

 

[Ken]

not exactly. The 80amp charger is only to get power from your house to the truck. Getting it back from the truck to the house requires not only the 80 amp ford charging system but also the HIS which has the interlock switch and the inverter.
Sunrun is quoting a price of $9K+ for full install of the HIS and charger, and stunningly quoted me $1600ish for installing the free charger from Ford, without even looking at my house or my install conditions. Since the charger is going to live right next to my main power power on the outside of my house, I have probably the cheapest install cost possible- which I know isn't going to be $1600+. When I asked about what happens if I decide to go with my local electrician the sun run rep was up front that they will delay your delivery of the 80 amp charger and you will get it "eventually". So I think I'm going to wire up a 14/50 receptacle for now and then swap it out later.

Sponsored