Does it make sense to charge at home in High Cost States for electricity (such as CT -3rd highest rates)

[Pjlightning]

Is it possible that charging at home is not the cheapest way to go for those of us that live in states with high Electricity rates?

If you can get charges for 31 cents/kw at EA, for example,
Or free at many other public places ( or Nissan dealers!),
Vs paying 25 cents/kw at home in CT on top of the cost of installing the charging unit at home ($1,500ish for me)…..
can it make sense to limit your at home charging, skip the upfront costs of the electrical upgrades, etc
And live with charging away from home as much as possible, and using the included (for 2022) basic charger into a wall outlet instead ?

convenience is a loss of course, but depending on your travel needs, and local charging options, might the math work out better to charge at home as little as possible ?

It would seem The break even on the sunk costs of installing home charging looks much better in low cost states for electricity than in CT and other high cost states.

https://neo.ne.gov/programs/stats/inf/204.htm#:~:text=Across all sectors, Hawaii has,has reports from prior years.

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[Crilly]

Not if you can charge free at work.

 

[greenne]

Is it possible that charging at home is not the cheapest way to go for those of us that live in states with high Electricity rates?

If you can get charges for 31 cents/kw at EA, for example,
Or free at many other public places ( or Nissan dealers!),
Vs paying 25 cents/kw at home in CT on top of the cost of installing the charging unit at home ($1,500ish for me)…..
can it make sense to limit your at home charging, skip the upfront costs of the electrical upgrades, etc
And live with charging away from home as much as possible, and using the included (for 2022) basic charger into a wall outlet instead ?

convenience is a loss of course, but depending on your travel needs, and local charging options, might the math work out better to charge at home as little as possible ?

It would seem The break even on the sunk costs of installing home charging looks much better in low cost states for electricity than in CT and other high cost states.

https://neo.ne.gov/programs/stats/inf/204.htm#:~:text=Across all sectors, Hawaii has,has reports from prior years.

A lot of states give you a reduced rate at night. Buy a smart EVSE so you can schedule charging during reduced rate hours.

Time-Of-Day Rate 7 | Eversource

United Illuminating Announces New Partnership With Bidgely to Assist in State EV Charging Program | Business Wire

Plus this...
Electric Vehicle Charging Program

 

[Roy2001]

I am in CA with PG&E and my rate would be around $0.4/kWh for charging at home and EA around me charges higher than that. Tesla charges $0.58.

So if I don’t already have solar, I won’t buy EVs, does not make economic sense.

 

[shutterbug]

I am in CA with PG&E and my rate would be around $0.4/kWh for charging at home and EA around me charges higher than that.

EA has the same rate everywhere (in states that allow pricing per kWh), even in CA. It's $0.31 per kWh. Of course my off-peak rate is less than $0.06.

 

[sotek2345]

I think you are massively under selling the convenience factor. Having a full charge every day at home is such a game changer. If you have never had an EV before, you don'y realize how it changes your whole mindset about fueling your vehicle.

I would not own an EV without hoke charging.

 

[LightningShow]

It’s definitely cheaper to charge on DCFC here in MA. Significantly cheaper.

 

[VTbuckeye]

I think you are massively under selling the convenience factor. Having a full charge every day at home is such a game changer. If you have never had an EV before, you don'y realize how it changes your whole mindset about fueling your vehicle.

I would not own an EV without hoke charging.

This!!!
My current ice truck is used infrequently. The EV and phev get most of the miles. Even though I fill up the tanks on the phev (over 2k miles on this tank with a 16mile electric phev) and truck no more than once a month, there is never a good time to do it. On the way to work? Nope, don't want to be late. On the way home? F-that, I just want to be home. It works the same for recreational trips. Only on long road trips is filling a gas tank not a hassle.

 

[LightningShow]

My charge on EA Sunday was $0.17/kwh, my all in home electric rate is $0.25/kwh. We have no off-peak rate here.

ETA: I mostly charge at work, for free, so it still doesn't make sense for me, usually. Although, once I realized that DCFC charging is cheaper here, I have shifted my thinking to be more open to using a DCFC if I'm low on charge and would typically replenish using a long home charge session. If I can stop at Walmart on the way home, get some errands done and add 50% to the battery then I'll probably do it. It's not often that I would *need* to do this but if I have a weekend where I'm driving more than usual, locally, then this will probably be what I do.

 

[Pjlightning]

My charge on EA Sunday was $0.17/kwh, my all in home electric rate is $0.25/kwh. We have no off-peak rate here.

ETA: I mostly charge at work, for free, so it still doesn't make sense for me, usually. Although, once I realized that DCFC charging is cheaper here, I have shifted my thinking to be more open to using a DCFC if I'm low on charge and would typically replenish using a long home charge session. If I can stop at Walmart on the way home, get some errands done and add 50% to the battery then I'll probably do it. It's not often that I would *need* to do this but if I have a weekend where I'm driving more than usual, locally, then this will probably be what I do.

so I’m not crazy…..

that DCFC is a good deal compared to home, in some places like MA.

I’m right on state line of MA/CT ,
and when I did some scouting out of charging options in MA this past weekend ,
I couldn’t believe how cheap it was….

which got me thinking:

why am I about to spend all this money to set up home charging?

I won’t break even for a long time it seems.

is it because MA is a state that charges by the minute at DCFC , and the lighting can take so much energy in a short time ?

If it was a DCFC that charged by the kw, I’m sure the math would be different,
But even then , the spread between EA kw rate at 0.31 vs 0.25 at home….doesn’t seem that compelling to bother going through the capital expense of setting a charger up at home (aside from convenience….which all depends on personal usage patterns of course)

 

[Maquis]

I don’t know the exact numbers, but using 100% DCFC will definitely degrade the battery faster than using predominantly L2.

 

[Pjlightning]

I don’t know the exact numbers, but using 100% DCFC will definitely degrade the battery faster than using predominantly L2.

I hear ya on this point.

What I’m imagining is using a conveniently local DCFC at low rates for some “bulk buying” of a good chunk of the battery, to bring it from maybe 30% state of charge to 70%, and then keeping the truck plugged into the standard wall socket at home otherwise, where it will slowly raise the truck from 70-90%.

I could see that pattern of charging striking a reasonable balance of:

-not damaging the truck through excessive or exclusive DCFC (not sure where to draw the line on this part)

- saving money by not spending $1,500 for the installation of higher speed charging at home

- still having the at home slow charge in-between DCFC sessions, to maintain better battery health through this trickle charge.

- reduce the impact of Eversource bills at home due to CT’s high electricity rates, and CT’s lack of an attractive Time of use program (they have one, but it’s not great).

 

[LightningShow]

I don’t know the exact numbers, but using 100% DCFC will definitely degrade the battery faster than using predominantly L2.

I’ve been wondering what the real difference is. And what causes the degradation? Just heat? Would only charging for 5-8 minutes at a time reduce the degradation compared to a 30-40 minute charge less often? If you got a good charger 5-8 minutes will get you 30-50 miles. Plenty for most daily driving.

 

[sotek2345]

I hear ya on this point.

What I’m imagining is using a conveniently local DCFC at low rates for some “bulk buying” of a good chunk of the battery, to bring it from maybe 30% state of charge to 70%, and then keeping the truck plugged into the standard wall socket at home otherwise, where it will slowly raise the truck from 70-90%.

I could see that pattern of charging striking a reasonable balance of:

-not damaging the truck through excessive or exclusive DCFC (not sure where to draw the line on this part)

- saving money by not spending $1,500 for the installation of higher speed charging at home

- still having the at home slow charge in-between DCFC sessions, to maintain better battery health through this trickle charge.

- reduce the impact of Eversource bills at home due to CT’s high electricity rates, and CT’s lack of an attractive Time of use program (they have one, but it’s not great).

It all comes down to what your time is worth. I would not want to spend that much time at DC fast charge stations for regular use. Heck, we had to drop to L1 charging for a bit over the winter because our EVSE broke and even that was very not fun. I would not own an EV if I did not have L2 charging at home.

One thing to keep in mind is that your battery will barely charge on L1 in the winter since most of the energy will go to keeping the battery warm. In our Mach-e, we got about 1%/hr. In the Lightning with the bigger battery, you will get something like 0.5 to 0.75%/hr. For us, even ~16 hours of charging didn't cover daily use.

 

[FlasherZ]

In the early days of Teslas, the same conversation was had. Tesla offered free supercharging, but it cost money at home. Plenty of people were tightwads and would regularly spend a couple hours, twice a week, sitting in front of the Fremont factory doing e-mail and stuff while they charged for free.

Tesla eventually nerfed that, or at least threatened to nerf it for some people.

I think you'll find that with rare exception, DCFC is going to be more expensive because the charging networks have to pay to offer support, and they have demand charges as part of their electric rate structure. So while it's not unheard-of, it will not be the common case.

Personally, it isn't worth it having to sit at the charger for a few hours during my prime time - potentially waiting in line - for a few cents discount per kWh.

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