Does it make sense to charge at home in High Cost States for electricity (such as CT -3rd highest rates)

[ChrisCon]

A poster above mentioned that they paid .17 per KWH in Massachusetts with EA. Should be noted here that it's because MA is a state that they charge by the minute.

In Connecticut, they charge by kWh at EA . its .31 with the pass. Your electric cost per kWh will always be lower than that. Only you will be able to figure out the breakeven cost based on your driving.

I live on the east end of Long Island in NY. My FCSP cost $600.00 to install as it was a short run. My electricity costs are also extremely high. My breakeven has already occurred.. As always with all of this, your mileage may vary because everyone has a different living and driving situation.

So it took over a month to get my FCSP installed and I spent a lot of time at two EA 350 kWh chargers. Many people were the chatty type and wanted to learn about my truck and shared information about their vehicles with me, and anecdotally it was people who either lived in apartments near the chargers there or people who had free EA charging vehicles (Kia vehicles, IONIQ, Polestar 2 ) . The other people charging there were tourists (frequent Porsche stop) .

I bring this up, because it further shows how everyone will have a different situation that will decide for them what the best way to charge is. I will say, I'm extremely happy that I never have to visit those extremely nice EA stations by me again as they are just a huge time suck. It's amazing to wake up each morning with a charged vehicle at home.

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[Roy2001]

EA has the same rate everywhere (in states that allow pricing per kWh), even in CA. It's $0.31 per kWh. Of course my off-peak rate is less than $0.06.

I am not sure what I remember EA price is more than $0.5…

 

[Roy2001]

In the early days of Teslas, the same conversation was had. Tesla offered free supercharging, but it cost money at home. Plenty of people were tightwads and would regularly spend a couple hours, twice a week, sitting in front of the Fremont factory doing e-mail and stuff while they charged for free.

Tesla eventually nerfed that, or at least threatened to nerf it for some people.

I think you'll find that with rare exception, DCFC is going to be more expensive because the charging networks have to pay to offer support, and they have demand charges as part of their electric rate structure. So while it's not unheard-of, it will not be the common case.

Personally, it isn't worth it having to sit at the charger for a few hours during my prime time - potentially waiting in line - for a few cents discount per kWh.

A few hours? I think it will be 30-60 minutes

 

[FlasherZ]

A few hours? I think it will be 30-60 minutes

Unless you live or work next door to a DCFC charger, you're going to want to minimize the number of times you have to spend going to/from the DCFC location. I doubt you're going to go there only to boost your charge from 30-60%... You're likely going to run it lower and charge to get it higher.

Yes, I suppose if you wanted to make more trips to the DCFC chargers, then you'll sit there 60 minutes... but if you have to drive 5-10 miles to a DCFC charger, I can't see why you wouldn't try to sap everything you can for the investment you made to drive there.

 

[sotek2345]

A few hours? I think it will be 30-60 minutes

Depends if the Chargers are working right and if there is a line. Also, don't forget to include the time driving too and from the Fast charger.

Time can also grow if you want to get a higher charge before leaving. 90% to 100% can take an hour by itself.

 

[Pjlightning]

A poster above mentioned that they paid .17 per KWH in Massachusetts with EA. Should be noted here that it's because MA is a state that they charge by the minute.

In Connecticut, they charge by kWh at EA . its .31 with the pass. Your electric cost per kWh will always be lower than that. Only you will be able to figure out the breakeven cost based on your driving.

I guess this is really the key-Massachusetts laws that mandate per minute EV charging which makes for extremely cheap fill-ups at DCFC in that state.

Electricity rates at my home (CT) are 3rd highest in the nation, (and only going higher?). So charging at home isn’t cheap.

so I could pay a fraction of the cost for electricity on the fill-up in MA, and save the $1,500 install costs of an at home hookup.

plus I suppose I could try to sell the unopened FCSP box for around $1,000.

that’s a $2,500 swing.

tempting to consider if you’re in MA (or near).

The breakeven rate might never be crossed here.

And In my circumstance, I work on my laptop all day anyways, so sitting at a DCFC once a week for an hour isn’t really an imposition
(plus the truck is built for it ! With the fold down center armrest, and the hotspot )

 

[yed19]

Compare Electricity Rates by State (August 2022) | SaveOnEnergy® Looking at this makes us in certain states realize how great our rates are in some places. I am getting $.025/KWh at our house in central Washington. This is the same reason no one has Solar here... I.e. It costs $3.28 to"fill the tank" there. Its only $13.40 to fill the tank in the Seattle area house though. But even in Hawaii, it seems to only be $56. Still less than filling my old car at $80. EV rates are ~.34/KWh. I.e. They are making $.24/KWh after electricity costs (assuming no deal). Anyone know how much it is to install a DCFC station?

 

[FlasherZ]

I guess this is really the key-Massachusetts laws that mandate per minute EV charging which makes for extremely cheap fill-ups at DCFC in that state.

I'm sure this will be adjusted, whether through Massachusetts changing the law to allow for per kWh charges, or adjusting price for per-minute charges to equal the recovery needed.

You're living on borrowed time right now and I'm sure it will eventually get adjusted.

Compare Electricity Rates by State (August 2022) | SaveOnEnergy® Looking at this makes us in certain states realize how great our rates are in some places. I am getting $.025/KWh at our house in central Washington. This is the same reason no one has Solar here... I.e. It costs $3.28 to"fill the tank" there. Its only $13.40 to fill the tank in the Seattle area house though. But even in Hawaii, it seems to only be $56. Still less than filling my old car at $80. EV rates are ~.34/KWh. I.e. They are making $.24/KWh after electricity costs (assuming no deal). Anyone know how much it is to install a DCFC station?

Likewise, I'm lucky in that I pay $0.094 per kWh here at any time of the day, and the local co-op board is working on a rate that would cut that to charge at night.

But keep in mind those are residential rates. Commercial rates come with demand charges, which is how much you draw at once, in addition to the per-kWh rates they pay.

You can find some suppliers of DCFC chargers on AliExpress (although I'd never trust them) - roughly $10k for units that can deliver 25-35 kW or so. Most of them require 3-phase service and that brings demand charges.

 

[yed19]

...

But keep in mind those are residential rates. Commercial rates come with demand charges, which is how much you draw at once, in addition to the per-kWh rates they pay.

You can find some suppliers of DCFC chargers on AliExpress (although I'd never trust them) - roughly $10k for units that can deliver 25-35 kW or so. Most of them require 3-phase service and that brings demand charges.

Any idea what those rates are on average. Looking at my local PUD, I found the demand charge (they do have a 20% reduced usage rate I found out): electricrates.pdf (snopud.com)Schedule 20EV
Demand Charge: • First 100 kW per month of Billing Demand: $0 per kW - month •
Over 100 kW per month of Billing Demand:

Effective Date	Demand Rate
January 1, 2022	$0.60 / kW
January 1, 2023	$1.33 / kW
January 1, 2024	$2.00 / kW
January 1, 2025	$2.66 / kW
January 1, 2026	$3.33 / kW
January 1, 2027	$4.00 / kW

The thing I am unclear about however is how the bill would present itself. I.e. So would the calculation essentially be: I am running a charger and it uses 1000 Kw that month. Is that a $600 bill then for 2022 + base? So if the rate charge (excluding base charge for simplicity) is $.08 per KW for a total of $80 per 1K KW, the total bill for that would be $680 per 1k KW?

$680/1000 would be a rate of $0.68/KW... I don't think I am calculating that correctly

 

[Roy2001]

With a 250kW

Depends if the Chargers are working right and if there is a line. Also, don't forget to include the time driving too and from the Fast charger.

Time can also grow if you want to get a higher charge before leaving. 90% to 100% can take an hour by itself.

That's interesting, I should consider EA instead of Tesla SC when possible. $0.58 is much higher than EA price if I buy membership.

 

[Maquis]

Any idea what those rates are on average. Looking at my local PUD, I found the demand charge (they do have a 20% reduced usage rate I found out): electricrates.pdf (snopud.com)Schedule 20EV
Demand Charge: • First 100 kW per month of Billing Demand: $0 per kW - month •
Over 100 kW per month of Billing Demand:

Effective Date	Demand Rate
January 1, 2022	$0.60 / kW
January 1, 2023	$1.33 / kW
January 1, 2024	$2.00 / kW
January 1, 2025	$2.66 / kW
January 1, 2026	$3.33 / kW
January 1, 2027	$4.00 / kW

The thing I am unclear about however is how the bill would present itself. I.e. So would the calculation essentially be: I am running a charger and it uses 1000 Kw that month. Is that a $600 bill then for 2022 + base? So if the rate charge (excluding base charge for simplicity) is $.08 per KW for a total of $80 per 1K KW, the total bill for that would be $680 per 1k KW?

$680/1000 would be a rate of $0.68/KW... I don't think I am calculating that correctly

You’re conflating KW and kWh. power vs energy.
Demand charge is based on the peak power you hit, usually over a 15 minute period measured in rolling 5 minute increments. So if the demand charge is $4.00, and your peak is 250 KW, you get a $2000 demand charge. That gets added to what pay for energy used, say 20,000 kWh at $0.15 per kWh = $3000. Total bill $5000.

Those numbers of KW and kWh may not be realistic depending many factors, but should give an idea.

 

[FlasherZ]

Any idea what those rates are on average. Looking at my local PUD, I found the demand charge (they do have a 20% reduced usage rate I found out): electricrates.pdf (snopud.com)Schedule 20EV
Demand Charge: • First 100 kW per month of Billing Demand: $0 per kW - month •
Over 100 kW per month of Billing Demand:

Effective Date	Demand Rate
January 1, 2022	$0.60 / kW
January 1, 2023	$1.33 / kW
January 1, 2024	$2.00 / kW
January 1, 2025	$2.66 / kW
January 1, 2026	$3.33 / kW
January 1, 2027	$4.00 / kW

The thing I am unclear about however is how the bill would present itself. I.e. So would the calculation essentially be: I am running a charger and it uses 1000 Kw that month. Is that a $600 bill then for 2022 + base? So if the rate charge (excluding base charge for simplicity) is $.08 per KW for a total of $80 per 1K KW, the total bill for that would be $680 per 1k KW?

$680/1000 would be a rate of $0.68/KW... I don't think I am calculating that correctly

The rates vary by state and provider. But here is a local co-op's rate page that explains it fairly well:

So, let's say that you have a charging facility with 2 350 kW chargers on a 500 kVA transformer.

The billing demand is the maximum kilowatt demand sustained for any 15 minute period that month. So let's say that at the maximum use point that month, two cars with identical SOC's arrived and plugged in at the same time, started charging at 250 kW and ramped down at 15 minutes to 175 kW. The monthly demand would be 350 kW (175 kW was sustained for 15 minutes x 2 cars).

Then let's say that across those two chargers, 100 cars were charged for an average of 50 kWh each that month. That would be 5000 kWh in usage.

So the bill for this station would be:

$200 for the meter charge
$8,046.85 for the demand charge ($19+$3.991) * 350 kW
$181.50 for the usage charge ($0.0363 * 5000 kWh)

$8,428.35 / 5000 kWh = $1.68/kWh

Now obviously this isn't going to be the structure everyone is subject to, and some months you'll likely not have two cars charging at the highest peak at the same time... but it's an example to show how demand charges play into this.

 

[Theo1000]

There are Charge point DCFC's near me that sell power at 8 cents / kwh once you factor in the per minute charge etc. I have to say if its on my way or close, I do stop and take on my cheap electrons. But in summer when my solar panels are pumping out excess electrons, I can do almost free charging. But this is usually only 2-3 months in the year. Rest of the time, it is cheaper on per min rate. Even cheaper than 8 cents if you consider the higher membership level.

I have pondered that if the DCFC rate gets much cheaper, say ~ 6 cents for my area, I may be persuaded to not charge at home. This would have been unthinkable even 2-3 years ago.

 

[LightningShow]

I guess this is really the key-Massachusetts laws that mandate per minute EV charging which makes for extremely cheap fill-ups at DCFC in that state.

Yes, DCFC is likely only cheaper in a small number of places that have per minute charging AND high residential electric rates. I just clicked through EA’s rate lookup. 16 states have per minute charging but it’s likely only MA and NH have residential rates high enough to make DCFC cheaper overall. GA, WI and PA are probably close to the same for home vs DCFC depending on whether there are off peak rates.

 

[shutterbug]

There are Charge point DCFC's near me that sell power at 8 cents / kwh once you factor in the per minute charge etc. I have to say if its on my way or close, I do stop and take on my cheap electrons. But in summer when my solar panels are pumping out excess electrons, I can do almost free charging. But this is usually only 2-3 months in the year. Rest of the time, it is cheaper on per min rate. Even cheaper than 8 cents if you consider the higher membership level.

I have pondered that if the DCFC rate gets much cheaper, say ~ 6 cents for my area, I may be persuaded to not charge at home. This would have been unthinkable even 2-3 years ago.

I don't think ChargePoint sets the rates at it's public EVSEs. I think they are set by the landlords.

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