Success: Charging 2 EVs off one 14-50 outlet

[macjaeh]

My brother and I were visiting our parents' house for the week - I drove our Lightning and my brother brought his Model X. On our last night in town after a day of tailgating/frunkgating at the Brewers game, we both wanted to charge up to 100% since we'd each be driving several hundred miles to get to our next destinations. Our dad's garage only has one 14-50 outlet and neither of us wanted to get up in the middle of the night to swap chargers, so we got creative with Pro Power onboard. We plugged the Lightning into the wall and my brother's Model X into the Lightning. The Tesla pulled 7kw of power from the Lightning and by the time we woke up they were both fully charged up with a total of 78kwh delivered between the two vehicles.

(A little more detail and video here)

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[GarageMahal]

Nice trick!

 

[LightningShow]

How much was the 14-50 delivering to the Lightning? It sounds like the Tesla was eating up most of the power output at 7kW. Or did it just pull 7kW until it was full then the Lightning got all of the power?

 

[FlasherZ]

The only caution I'll make here is that the receptacle in Pro Power is rated for 30A intermittent, not 30A continuous load. By converting the L14-30P to a NEMA 14-50R and allowing the Ford mobile charger to draw its full 30A continuous load, you're risking that 30A receptacle melting.

If you do that again, I'd recommend ensuring the Tesla draws no more than 24A from that connection.

One note: if you read NEC 625, you'll note that it has a requirement for straight-prong NEMA outlets only, which would leave out twist-lock... this is because twist-lock receptacles and plugs don't do well with continuous current. At the local bowling alley where I take care of the pinsetters, we generally have to replace a twist-lock pinsetter socket or cord at least once a year because the contacts get bad and melt).

 

[Zprime29]

Doesn't Ford promote charging other EV's from the ProPower? Why would they do that if it wasn't rated for continuous?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

The only caution I'll make here is that the receptacle in Pro Power is rated for 30A intermittent, not 30A continuous load. By converting the L14-30P to a NEMA 14-50R and allowing the Ford mobile charger to draw its full 30A continuous load, you're risking that 30A receptacle melting.

If you do that again, I'd recommend ensuring the Tesla draws no more than 24A from that connection.

One note: if you read NEC 625, you'll note that it has a requirement for straight-prong NEMA outlets only, which would leave out twist-lock... this is because twist-lock receptacles and plugs don't do well with continuous current. At the local bowling alley where I take care of the pinsetters, we generally have to replace a twist-lock pinsetter socket or cord at least once a year because the contacts get bad and melt).

Ya, calling BS on this. Ford provided this outlet expressly for mobile charging and other continuous loads, not just intermittent loads, regardless of technical spec. Also, every 30 or 50 amp marina connection that I've ever used was twistlock, and I have twicklocks on the dock pedestals at both my houses. They are used for powering boats with continuous current draws like HVAC, water heaters. Specs are one thing , reality is another. Lots of liveaboards using twistlock 30 and 50 amp receptacles.

 

[FlasherZ]

Ya, calling BS on this. Ford provided this outlet expressly for mobile charging and other continuous loads, not just intermittent loads, regardless of technical spec. Also, every 30 or 50 amp marina connection that I've ever used was twistlock, and I have twicklocks on the dock pedestals at both my houses. They are used for powering boats with continuous current draws like HVAC, water heaters. Specs are one thing , reality is another. Lots of liveaboards using twistlock 30 and 50 amp receptacles.

That's why the CMP wrote it that way, if you don't believe it I don't know what to tell you - your choice. Best to you.

Marina outlets are not standard twist-lock and are made differently. They're typically a special Hubbell series

 

[PungoteagueDave]

That's why the CMP wrote it that way, if you don't believe it I don't know what to tell you - your choice. Best to you.

Marina outlets are not standard twist-lock and are made differently. They're typically a special Hubbell series

So why does Ford specifically advertise this for continuous uses like charging other vehicles? Hmm?

 

[FlasherZ]

So why does Ford specifically advertise this for continuous uses like charging other vehicles? Hmm?

They don't advertise it as charging other vehicles at 30A continuous. And the small print says you need to follow proper guidelines.

I'm just telling everyone my considerable experience with twist-locks and continuous current, and why specifically the CMP specified straight-blade receptacles only in art 625.

Will it work? Yeah. But I've seen a lot of melted receptacles in 10 years of EV consulting.

...hence my warning of 24A and you should be fine.

And NEC says 24A maximum charge current on equipment rated 30A unless the equipment is expressly rated for continuous usage. Ford doesn't say that.

 

[Firestop]

Ya, calling BS on this. Ford provided this outlet expressly for mobile charging and other continuous loads, not just intermittent loads, regardless of technical spec. Also, every 30 or 50 amp marina connection that I've ever used was twistlock, and I have twicklocks on the dock pedestals at both my houses. They are used for powering boats with continuous current draws like HVAC, water heaters. Specs are one thing , reality is another. Lots of liveaboards using twistlock 30 and 50 amp receptacles.

Easy man on calling BS on @FlasherZ …. He’s giving you facts.

I’ve posted on this issue before…..Ford Marketing forgot to talk to Ford Engineering on the ProPower’s capabilities, and Ford’s own written documentation that comes with the truck indirectly backs up what @FlasherZ is telling you (see attached photos).

I agree with the BS, but you’re throwing it in the wrong direction. The Parkworld NEMA L14-30P to NEMA 14-50 R adapter accessory that @Ford Motor Company recommended for the use of ProPower for EV charging specifically calls out the 24A limitation/warning when using the charging an EV (I marked mine up to remind me of this)…but, everyone will do what they want…and can afford to take risks to do………

 

[GDN]

Isn't also just a little bit of an oxymoron that neither the Ford chargers, nor app, nor vehicle allow you to dial that draw down to the 24 amps, so good luck with that.

 

[Firestop]

Isn't also just a little bit of an oxymoron that neither the Ford chargers, nor app, nor vehicle allow you to dial that draw down to the 24 amps, so good luck with that.

Oh yea, good point….I forgot to mention that very important issue!!!

Hmm, add this to 120V charging fixed to ~11A regardless of circuit amps provided….a few practical charging scenarios not considered….or, well thought out.

Over promised….undelivered on L1 and L2 charging …….

 

[Maquis]

Isn't also just a little bit of an oxymoron that neither the Ford chargers, nor app, nor vehicle allow you to dial that draw down to the 24 amps, so good luck with that.

In the OP’s case, he was charging a Tesla, which can be dialed down.
So the Lightning can safely charge a Tesla, but not a Mach-E!

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Easy man on calling BS on @FlasherZ …. He’s giving you facts.

I’ve posted on this issue before…..Ford Marketing forgot to talk to Ford Engineering on the ProPower’s capabilities, and Ford’s own written documentation that comes with the truck indirectly backs up what @FlasherZ is telling you (see attached photos).

I agree with the BS, but you’re throwing it in the wrong direction. The Parkworld NEMA L14-30P to NEMA 14-50 R adapter accessory that @Ford Motor Company recommended for the use of ProPower for EV charging specifically calls out the 24A limitation/warning when using the charging an EV (I marked mine up to remind me of this)…but, everyone will do what they want…and can afford to take risks to do………

Points taken from both of you EXCEPT that Ford and some others provide no mechanism for setting charge rate, so booyah, checkmate. Great advice with no practical application. You want to give your buddy with a Lightning a charge? Take your chances is what you are saying, because Ford's engineering and marketing are f'd up. No surprise, but my point was that Ford DOES say you can charge EVs with our trucks. Flasher says the supplied 30 AMP outlet isn't safe under code specs and the outlet manufacturer's specs for doing a continuous charge. And yet there's no way to de-rate a charge on many chargers, including the supplied Ford mobile charger, which IS 30 AMPS.

Many of us now have the needed adapter to supply a charge to either our truck from someone else, or to someone else. Flasher says that's out of spec. Ford very specifically says it isn't, except perhaps in very obscure contradictory fine print that you'd have to be an electrician to either find or understand. Meanwhile there's a big color brochure showing continuous charging with that very outlet, again with no provision for setting rate. So yeah, I gotta call BS unless or until Ford sends out an alert or provides a recall notice with a bold yellow sticker, or alternate outlet format that is compatible with safe continuous charging at the provided amperage. Because what Flasher is alleging is that Ford has sold us a product that is likely to cause fires as demonstrated in its marketing, and is unsuited for purpose, a serious legal conundrum for them if true.

 

[Firestop]

In the OP’s case, he was charging a Tesla, which can be dialed down.
So the Lightning can safely charge a Tesla, but not a Mach-E!

True, but it is sad that Ford shows the rendition of their portable charger in their instructions that come with that charger that can’t be used with the adapter they recommend …….

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