Interesting perspective on state of EV chargers and economics.

[lakeguy55]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...sedwhats-up-with-non-tesla-fast-charging/amp/

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[metroshot]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...sedwhats-up-with-non-tesla-fast-charging/amp/

The writer needs to get a reality check.

The past 3 months, I have had to wait for a public DCFC (EA) and half of those weren't working.

Yesterday, at a Target store w/ 4 EA chargers, 2 were working, 2 kept timing out.

Lots of EVs rolled in, waiting, wondering why everyone was switching charge slots.

I called EA and after 15 minutes on hold, got a live rep and asked them to reboot 2 stations - got one to work but the other was not charging.

During this conversation, the EA rep apologized after being told there are 6 EVs waiting to charge and only 3 are working.

He said the number of new 2022 EVs have hit so fast and caught them off guard.

The funniest part of this conversation was that EA is using Microsoft Windows 7 Embedded OS on their charger terminals!!!

 

[3rdgenfan]

The funniest part of this conversation was that EA is using Microsoft Windows 7 Embedded OS on their charger terminals!!!

I know they usually have a bit longer EOL on the POSReady/Embedded systems but uh....that's a bit old and seems to be a few years past end of life. Don't they have a credit card reader at the charger? Seems a little...non compliant.

 

[Tony Burgh]

The greatest need is FC along major highways. IMO, a majority of people buying EV’s do so to save money on fuel by charging at home and most households have multiple vehicles with one being ICE. 80/20 and common sense will bring the greatest profit for DCFC companies. That, and keep the chargers operational.

 

[ukatown]

I know they usually have a bit longer EOL on the POSReady/Embedded systems but uh....that's a bit old and seems to be a few years past end of life. Don't they have a credit card reader at the charger? Seems a little...non compliant.

Microsoft can provide support for 3 years past EOL, which for windows 7 will be sometime in mid-January 2023 (eol was jan '20). This is... cutting it close, but hopefully they are in the process of getting them all upgraded. I've spent the better part of the last year trying to replace over 450 win7 devices at my organization, and we're still not done.

 

[RickLightning]

The writer needs to get a reality check.

The past 3 months, I have had to wait for a public DCFC (EA) and half of those weren't working.

Yesterday, at a Target store w/ 4 EA chargers, 2 were working, 2 kept timing out.

Lots of EVs rolled in, waiting, wondering why everyone was switching charge slots.

I called EA and after 15 minutes on hold, got a live rep and asked them to reboot 2 stations - got one to work but the other was not charging.

During this conversation, the EA rep apologized after being told there are 6 EVs waiting to charge and only 3 are working.

He said the number of new 2022 EVs have hit so fast and caught them off guard.

The funniest part of this conversation was that EA is using Microsoft Windows 7 Embedded OS on their charger terminals!!!

Both the writer and @metroshot have perspectives that are biased by their locations / looking at aggregate data.

We have had a Mach-E (2021 and then 2022) since July 2021. We've charged in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, O_io, Pennsylvania, New York, and Massachusetts and have never waited for a charger. Not one time. While in 2021 we found lots of chargers not working, 2022 has shown improvement in the same locations that had issues in 2021. Yes, sometimes 1 of the chargers is not working. Yes, sometimes they are offline and you get free charging.

The writer is using overall stats. EA puts a charger in a remote part of a state, and it barely gets used. The writer is not using common sense in their analysis. They also don't know things like - EA charges by the minute in about a dozen states.

When we see a Tesla charging location, it has a handful to maybe 10 spaces. In CA, some of them are magnitudes larger, again showing the density issue of EVs in some areas.

In general, the qualify of Forbes' articles is horrible.

Take a look at the EA map for the LA area where @metroshot lives:

There is a huge density of chargers there, because there are a lot of EVs.

Now, let's pick a random metropolitan area. How about Denver (note - I didn't look first):

New York City area

Greater Detroit area

 

[3rdgenfan]

Microsoft can provide support for 3 years past EOL, which for windows 7 will be sometime in mid-January 2023 (eol was jan '20). This is... cutting it close, but hopefully they are in the process of getting them all upgraded. I've spent the better part of the last year trying to replace over 450 win7 devices at my organization, and we're still not done.

Ahh forgot the 3 year extension, saw 2020 and thought that was the hard cut-off.

Still working on Win10 replacements myself, replaced about 200 two years ago only to need to replace them again after we switched to VMWare/WorkspaceONE management.

 

[RickLightning]

The greatest need is FC along major highways. IMO, a majority of people buying EV’s do so to save money on fuel by charging at home and most households have multiple vehicles with one being ICE. 80/20 and common sense will bring the greatest profit for DCFC companies. That, and keep the chargers operational.

I'm glad you said "IMO". Because you're entitled to your opinion. Just so happens it's not the #1 reason, but that's ok. Many that are buying EVs with years of free charging are never charging at home.

Some studies show environmental reasons. Some show infotainment / in-vehicle technology. Millennials want them "because they are cool".

 

[Tony Burgh]

Some studies show environmental reasons. Some show infotainment / in-vehicle technology. Millennials want them "because they are cool".

Haha. Not one of those cover me. But I’m old and cheap.

 

[RickLightning]

Haha. Not one of those cover me. But I’m old and cheap.

But if you bought the F-150L to "save money", you do know that you're not "saving money". Yes, the cost of driving a mile in fuel is less than gas, but you had to spend a lot more than a gas F-150 to get that savings. And you'll never hit breakeven as compared to a used F-150 gas model that you already own. Or buying one used.

My 2013 F-150 has like 52,000 miles. Even if I was getting 15 miles per gallon, spending $80,000 on an equivalent trim F-150L won't ever "save me money".

 

[Pioneer74]

We just got back from a trip starting in Toledo and ended in Baltimore. EA may have a bunch of chargers, but they are in the wrong places. We had to get off the Ohio and Pennsylvania turnpike to charge. Not a big deal, but why aren't they putting them in Service Plazas? Having them next to a Walmart 10 miles of the interstate may work for the local crowd, but inconvenient for the people traveling.

Anyway, we stopped at the same EA location there and back. 4 stations. On the way out, 2 of the 4 didn't work. On the way back 3 were down. Didn't have to wait either time but even after calling them things didn't improve.

We also used EVgo. I love their app. Some of their stations are a little slow, but their kWh price is lower than having to pay for a membership with EA.

 

[Tony Burgh]

But if you bought the F-150L to "save money", you do know that you're not "saving money". Yes, the cost of driving a mile in fuel is less than gas, but you had to spend a lot more than a gas F-150 to get that savings. And you'll never hit breakeven as compared to a used F-150 gas model that you already own. Or buying one used.

My 2013 F-150 has like 52,000 miles. Even if I was getting 15 miles per gallon, spending $80,000 on an equivalent trim F-150L won't ever "save me money".

This one didn’t cost that much more than my old one (I’m used to 5 digit increases buying new vehicles) and the trade in value was ridiculously good. Cost-benefit always favors fixed capital against rising operating costs. Electricity is regulated, gasoline is not and diesel is a problem where I am.
A make-good analysis in 5 years will tell the tale.

 

[metroshot]

Microsoft can provide support for 3 years past EOL, which for windows 7 will be sometime in mid-January 2023 (eol was jan '20). This is... cutting it close, but hopefully they are in the process of getting them all upgraded. I've spent the better part of the last year trying to replace over 450 win7 devices at my organization, and we're still not done.

This is what OS version the EA chargers are running:

My work place stopped support for Windows 7 in 2020 (SP1).

But OEMs have had Extended SP updates that go into 2023. "Extended Security Update Year 3*"

Our organization is working hard to remove / disable any W7 machines on our network since 2020...

When our Cisco switch (Meraki) and DHCP server detects a W7 machine, it's instructed to disable the port or WiFI SSID.

Our biggest issue with antiquated systems still on our network are POS kiosk terminals that hardly get used but when they get turned on, we get notified.

 

[RickLightning]

We just got back from a trip starting in Toledo and ended in Baltimore. EA may have a bunch of chargers, but they are in the wrong places. We had to get off the Ohio and Pennsylvania turnpike to charge. Not a big deal, but why aren't they putting them in Service Plazas? Having them next to a Walmart 10 miles of the interstate may work for the local crowd, but inconvenient for the people traveling.

Anyway, we stopped at the same EA location there and back. 4 stations. On the way out, 2 of the 4 didn't work. On the way back 3 were down. Didn't have to wait either time but even after calling them things didn't improve.

We also used EVgo. I love their app. Some of their stations are a little slow, but their kWh price is lower than having to pay for a membership with EA.

I'm sorry you had to be in O_io, and especially Toledo.

EA has chargers on the O_io Turnpike. Tiffin River / Indian Meadow Service Plazas, Wyandot / Blue Heron Service Plazas.

Yes, in many areas you need to exit the highway (NY Thruway) to find chargers. PA Turnpike also. Is that the fault of EA, or the Turnpike Authority?

EA's membership, Pass+, is $4 per month. You can upgrade, then downgrade, immediately, and it takes effect in 30 days.

In a per kWh state, that drops the rate from 43 cents to 31 cents. Breakeven is in your first charge, i.e. it becomes cheaper after you've used 33.3kWh.

In a per minute state, it drops the rate from 32 cents to 24 cents. Breakeven is at 50 minutes, i.e. your 2nd charge.

 

[jerock]

I went to the local Flying J Saturday to have a propane bottle filled. The manager filled the bottle for me. I asked him if they had plans for electric chargers. He said yes they are in the process & planning. They have the extra land already & are planning for chargers & extra parking, along with overnight camper spots. They will also have some drive through chargers.
I know that GM & EVGo had plans to build chargers at Pilot & Flying J's, I suppose this is part of that plan. They already have a few stations that have RV camping spots, adding EV charging will make travel with a camper much less stressful with the Lightning.

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