Looks like the SCALPING market is dead (for now).

[kkgg]

These days I am getting quite a few emails of this sort

So yeah, looks like the people who need/afford vehicle at the inflated prices bought theirs already. Now it's just not so much demand.

Personally I just want this truck, I don't need it

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[metroshot]

It is amazing to me that people make assumptions what other people can afford. They have no idea how these people spend their money, have invested their money, do they have rent or house payments, do they have kids or any other idea of what they can afford.

Agree - with my public service salary alone, I would not be able to afford a $70+ vehicle but combined with my side business and my wife's income, I can.

Not that I really wanted such an expensive commuter vehicle - really wanted the Pro or XLT trim.

So all I did was stretch my payments (84 months) instead of the normal 60 months that I was planning on with a lower trim.

What took the sting out for me was the $7500 tax credit + $2000 state rebate + $750 state clean air POS rebate, and local utility rebate.

Effectively my Lightning is $67K after fees and rebates.

 

[lightspeed]

It is amazing to me that people make assumptions what other people can afford. They have no idea how these people spend their money, have invested their money, do they have rent or house payments, do they have kids or any other idea of what they can afford.

That number I gave was based on typical financial planning guides, not something that I invented. And an "assumption" AKA "hypothesis" isn't a judgement, just a starting point for a generalization.

I don't give an S about what other people buy or if they can "afford" it, but was only trying to estimate the size of the luxury truck market.

Are you unaware that their are professionals in Ford that do these sorts of projections for a living? (They have the benefit of more detailed statistics on their customers.)

 

[Ostrichsak]

We're veering way off topic here so if you don't want to have your beliefs of loans/financing and general financial positions challenged and are easily triggered by someone who actually has real life experience that may go against what you hold to be true... don't read this post any further.




By the very definition of a loan, if you have to borrow money to buy something... you can't afford it. You can bend the definition of the word "afford" all you want to make it fit what has become the societal norm but it's not the shortest path to wealth. That's the easiest way to impress your friends and leverage away your future.

Those who have no debt, no payments and no obligation to any other person or institution (pause and allow yourself to actually consider that for a moment) can tell you that the security from NEVER having to worry about a payment, interest rates or recessions will tell you that this idea that you can "afford" a car payment is simply misdirection.

You can truly afford what you can pay cash for which doesn't affect your reserves (aka net worth) in a manner that leaves you vulnerable to risk.

This also forces you to actually consider if you really need to spend that much for a vehicle that will only cost you more in depreciation loss over the next couple of years. This loss occurs every day, even while you sleep. People who don't understand finances (or think they do) have all sorts of bright ideas but these are also the people who are quietest once the market takes a dip and they're over-extended. Those bills that you could previously "afford" will keep rolling in monthly whether you have a job or not. I hope you don't but assuming that's not possible is a great way to get into trouble when you're considering loans.

A loan allows you to buy something with a larger purchase price that will mean larger loss for depreciation.

Most "financial experts" will respond to this by saying to play the "spread" between that rate and any perceived gain in their investment. The problem is that this get rich quick scheme never includes a Q-Factor for risk in their over-simplified equation. Advice like this is also why more Americans are living paycheck to paycheck than ever while blaming everyone around them but themselves for not getting smarter about money. There's nothing secksi about driving the same used cars for 8 years though, not too many social media feeds with that story. Not too many "financial experts" can make a living telling people to not spend more than they have and save their money until they no longer have to worry about working a decade or two from now. That's not the flashy path but it works. Every time.

Much like casinos, banks have gigantic buildings and the money to build them comes from somewhere. Your obligation to future you is to ask yourself why that is and what the motivation is to convince you to pay them ANY amount of money... no matter how good of a job the do at telling you it's a great "deal" that you can't live without.

I know we've got WAY off track with this but if anyone at all reads this and decides to think outside of the box and stop taking advice from their poor friends who drive flashy cars and live in big houses that are all financed then it was worth it. I know I used to fall for that same crap and had all of Kiyosaki's books memorized thinking I'd be retired by 35 using these "proven" methods. I came awfully close if wasn't for 2008 and lost most all of it due to being over-leveraged. Now I'm the old timer warning others of the get rich schemes based on personal experience and wishing someone had told me the same thing in my 20's.

This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it so do with it what you will. You're not going to change my mind though as I've been both people and I know which path is more relaxing and I now have zero reason to ever go back to payments again. Ever.

 

[carrillj]

I agree with everything you’ve said. My point is that saying a certain amount of income is an indicator of whether you can afford this vehicle is false. Many that make over $200k cannot afford it and many that make under that amount can afford it.
As in the book the millionaire next door points out you cannot tell how well a person handles their money or their net worth by their income only.

I completely agree. I nearly cringed myself to death after reading the posters ridiculous assumptions. They were based on zero facts. Case in point, i make way less than $200K annually, but I will still be able to purchase my Lariat ER with cash. All it takes is for me to dip into my savings and sell what I’m currently driving. It’s not rocket science to understand that each person lives their life uniquely and annual earnings has nothing to do with a persons net worth or ability to purchase a vehicle.

 

[lightspeed]

I completely agree. I nearly cringed myself to death after reading the posters ridiculous assumptions. They were based on zero facts. Case in point, i make way less than $200K annually, but I will still be able to purchase my Lariat ER with cash. All it takes is for me to dip into my savings and sell what I’m currently driving. It’s not rocket science to understand that each person lives their life uniquely and annual earnings has nothing to do with a persons net worth or ability to purchase a vehicle.

Wow. Why you shook? I like cringed to death literally at your sus inability to understand how my lit AF projection was based on statistics, averages, and financial planning rules-of-thumb, no cap. Most of my line items were facts taken from statistical data. The 200K income item was common financial advice for affordability, but isn't a rule from God.

For some reason (the internet), a few people here are taking this personally even though it's only an attempt to project the size of the luxury truck market. Not surprisingly, it's the people that might not fit into the "responsibly afford" category like you. If you make "way less than 200K," then you are making a financial mistake by buying an 80K truck. But you're probably young, dumb, and want to have fun -- I've been there. $50K invested now could easily be a million in 40 years when you're starting to think about retirement.

Having said the above, I promise that I don't care at all what anyone else does with their money. The only purpose was to estimate the size of the luxury truck market to see if we're reaching a saturation point.

 

[carrillj]

Wow. Why you shook? I like cringed to death literally at your sus inability to understand how my lit AF projection was based on statistics, averages, and financial planning rules-of-thumb, no cap. Most of my line items were facts taken from statistical data. The 200K income item was common financial advice for affordability, but isn't a rule from God.

For some reason (the internet), a few people here are taking this personally even though it's only an attempt to project the size of the luxury truck market. Not surprisingly, it's the people that might not fit into the "responsibly afford" category like you. If you make "way less than 200K," then you are making a financial mistake by buying an 80K truck. But you're probably young, dumb, and want to have fun -- I've been there. $50K invested now could easily be a million in 40 years when you're starting to think about retirement.

Having said the above, I promise that I don't care at all what anyone else does with their money. The only purpose was to estimate the size of the luxury truck market to see if we're reaching a saturation point.

Wow, you are further digging yourself into a larger whole of stupidy. I can assure you that I as a Federal Government employee who is currently receiving 2 pensions and earning a third, knows quite a bit about financial responsibility. Take into account my cashing in on the real estate market last year, also my side hobby that earns me cash for fun; I can assure you that I can comfortably purchase a “luxury“ truck Just like many others here on the forum.

So please get off your high horse of ignorance and use linked facts from true professionals when making ignorant statements. Until then, you’re better off just shutting up and stop hating on people for having what you do not.

 

[lightspeed]

Wow, you are further digging yourself into a larger whole of stupidy. I can assure you that I as a Federal Government employee who is currently receiving 2 pensions and earning a third, knows quite a bit about financial responsibility. Take into account my cashing in on the real estate market last year, also my side hobby that earns me cash for fun; I can assure you that I can comfortably purchase a “luxury“ truck Just like many others here on the forum.

So please get off your high horse of ignorance and use linked facts from true professionals when making ignorant statements. Until then, you’re better off just shutting up and stop hating on people for having what you do not.

Then why are you so b-hurt about a post that is just a projection on how many people are buying luxury trucks? If you can afford it, then what difference does it make to you? 200k income IS FROM financial advisors but it's just a rule of thumb. People have different situations, OBVIOUSLY.

Like I said multiple times, I don't care at all what anyone does with their money or if they can "afford" anything. There was no judgement or attempt to guilt anyone.

The reply about your situation was based on an assumption that you were young based on your cringe use of slang. But now I see you're just another old angry guy.

 

[jerock]

Every time this subject has come up on this forum I shake my head. Why is anyone worrying about who can afford this pickup and who should buy it or not. Seems kind of odd & what is the motive behind it?

 

[lightspeed]

Every time this subject has come up on this forum I shake my head. Why is anyone worrying about who can afford this pickup and who should buy it or not. Seems kind of odd & what is the motive behind it?

>>>>> a projection on how many people are buying luxury trucks to understand how saturated the market is <<<<<

That was the purpose. Not to worry about who should buy luxury things or not. Do you understand now?

 

[carrillj]

The reply about your situation was based on an assumption that you were young based on your cringe use of slang. But now I see you're just another old angry guy.

Actually I’m 48, which I wouldn’t consider “old“ unless I’m being seen through the eyes of a teenager. Should I be like you and also make a baseless assumption that you recently graduated from high school?

 

[Flashy McLightning]

What is the anticipated price increase for 23MY to 24MY? Minimum $5K? Likely $8-10K? I don’t think someone who buys a truck at sticker today is going to be hurt over the next 2-3 years.

I could see the 25K+ over sticker market drying up, but the Pro and Platinums should still be $5-10K over. Ford hasn’t taken new reservations in 11 months.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

 

[GDN]

I agree with your statement.

I'll also tell you that a lot of people buy vehicles that are beyond their ability to "afford". Afford to me means that you can pay all your bills, put food on the table, and not be in hock up to your eyeballs. There are people buying $70,000 pickups that qualify for loans but in fact can't "afford" them. Companies like Ford Credit have massive workforces to deal with these people and encourage overdue payments be made vs. repossessing the vehicle.

I'm not arguing your point, but will toss out that likely Ford Credit (truly ALL lenders) is guilty and part of the problem. Of course they have statistics and courts on their side, but they also know what percentage of people overextend themselves.

Credit should be dialed back and not extended to those. We just accept a huge majority of people should live like that. Whether buying more auto or house (remember that disaster just a few years ago) or anything. We allow so many to live with way too much debt. Our lenders are the blame for that.

 

[jerock]

Probably there are better places to do financial research than an Internet forum.

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