ER Lightning- Cannot Charge Past 265 Miles?

[RickLightning]

My Mach-E sometimes shows a range of 275 miles in the summer. Now, it shows a range of 180 - 190.

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[bydabeach]

You actually don't understand pre-conditioning. Doing a remote start while plugged in is not preconditioning. You need to set a departure time.

320 is the EPA range. Did you question EPA's range on all your ICE vehicles?

The cold weather impact is measured from the warm weather efficiency you got to the cold weather efficiency you are getting.

You should also stop thinking of your charging in "miles". Why? Because in the summer you have say 275 miles of range at full charge. In the winter you get 180 miles (both numbers are made up by me). Same charge, same battery. What changed? MILES PER KILOWATT that you are getting in your DRIVING, not your charging.

Your battery is 131 kilowatt hours. You get say 2.2 miles per kilowatt in the summer. That's 288 miles of range. If it's 20 degrees out, that's probably going to drop 35%. You'll get 1.43 miles per kilowatt, for a range of 187 miles.

If this wasn't clear to you before you bought, you didn't understand EVs (and also PHEVs and Hybrids) well enough.

Yes, I understanding pre-conditioning just fine. Maybe I should have put it in quotes or said "quasi pre-conditioned" the vehicle" by running the heat and leaving it off for the drive to satisfy a purist like you. Yes, I missed the warming the battery part, but it was 35 F when I left for work yesterday, not exactly frigid for NJ. Looking forward to the pessimistic projection when it gets down in the single digits.

And I understand EV and PHEV technology just fine too. We have a PHEV Volvo. But I was not expecting 43% range loss in mid 30s weather. Your post is a little condescending.

 

[Maquis]

And I understand EV and PHEV technology just fine too. ……. But I was not expecting 43% range loss in mid 30s weather.

To be fair, those sentences are a bit contradictory.

 

[RickLightning]

Yes, I understanding pre-conditioning just fine. Maybe I should have put it in quotes or said "quasi pre-conditioned" the vehicle" by running the heat and leaving it off for the drive to satisfy a purist like you. Yes, I missed the warming the battery part, but it was 35 F when I left for work yesterday, not exactly frigid for NJ. Looking forward to the pessimistic projection when it gets down in the single digits.

And I understand EV and PHEV technology just fine too. We have a PHEV Volvo. But I was not expecting 43% range loss in mid 30s weather. Your post is a little condescending.

Sorry you took it that way.

You're measuring loss off EPA numbers. That's not how you measure loss. You didn't have a 43% loss.

35 is indeed frigid for a battery that wants a temp of around 73 degrees. You'll see range loss at 50 degrees.

If you pre-condition via a departure time, it will pre-heat the battery. That will give you better efficiency for a period of time, as the battery will continue to cool as you drive. In my Mach-E, in 20 degree temps, the battery went as low as 40 degrees.

 

[bydabeach]

Sorry you took it that way.

You're measuring loss off EPA numbers. That's not how you measure loss. You didn't have a 43% loss.

35 is indeed frigid for a battery that wants a temp of around 73 degrees. You'll see range loss at 50 degrees.

If you pre-condition via a departure time, it will pre-heat the battery. That will give you better efficiency for a period of time, as the battery will continue to cool as you drive. In my Mach-E, in 20 degree temps, the battery went as low as 40 degrees.

Got it, no harm no foul. I just finished my coffee, and I feel better. I will work on a pre-conditioning schedule. While I said "I understand" preconditioning, what is the average time in 20-35 degree weather for the Lightning to be fully pre-conditioned? 30 mins, 60 mins or more. My Lightning is kept in a garage, but it is not heated. Thanks.

 

[RickLightning]

Got it, no harm no foul. I just finished my coffee, and I feel better. I will work on a pre-conditioning schedule. While I said "I understand" preconditioning, what is the average time in 20-35 degree weather for the Lightning to be fully pre-conditioned? 30 mins, 60 mins or more. My Lightning is kept in a garage, but it is not heated. Thanks.

I can't tell you the average time. I can tell you that last March my Mach-E took 1 hour and 18 minutes from start to finish. It will depend on the temp of the battery. Keep in mind you don't set anything but the time you plan on leaving, the truck will figure out when it needs to start the process.

On a local drive, or a drive where you're not using most of your range, the question is whether a departure time is cost effective vs. remote starting. The battery is colder with remote starting, and you'll get less power from it if you for example stomp on the pedal. But - what's the net cost difference?

A non-scientific experiment would be to find two comparable days with the same commute, and set a departure time for one and remote start the other and see how much energy you use in both the battery and from the house current.

 

[metroshot]

Funny how cooler weather makes your GOM into a SOM (Stress O Meter) as the MME forums have coined.

....but it was 35 F when I left for work yesterday, not exactly frigid for NJ. Looking forward to the pessimistic projection when it gets down in the single digits.

And I understand EV and PHEV technology just fine too. We have a PHEV Volvo. But I was not expecting 43% range loss in mid 30s weather. Your post is a little condescending.

35 degrees is extremely frigid for me as I live in So Calif where temps never drop below 50, so it's all relative.

Just to compare, this last week of November, I am getting 15-25% ABOVE EPA range estimate (remember, the GOM is an estimate) because I am in 80 degree temps and NOT running A/C like I had to last week.
A/C does have some impact on range but not as much as heating.

BTW: people here are not condescending - they are seasoned peers that hear about cold weather "Shrinkage" a lot year after year. I am forum moderator on other sites & FB so i get to hear about it every fall.

EPA range lists 230 miles on my SR - it's been normal for me to get 260-291 miles of range. This was this past weekend:

 

[Halbach]

35 degrees is extremely frigid for me as I live in So Calif where temps never drop below 50, so it's all relative.

BTW: people here are not condescending - they are seasoned peers that hear about cold weather "Shrinkage" a lot year after year. I am forum moderator on other sites & FB so i get to hear about it every fall.

Cut some of your response away to keep the parts I was interested in, sorry.

I receive questions all the time from people who read horror stories about 50% range loss in EVs as it will get pretty cold here (not Yukon cold, but 0F happens often enough) and are wondering why I would even consider an EV. I try and explain everything I've learned (somethings I can only infer until my truck arrives), but it seems the ones who are against it cannot be swayed and some just don't want to learn. It'll be a long while till problems like this are a thing of the past.

 

[lightspeed]

Does anyone have ACTUAL range numbers in the cold versus the GoM numbers? I suspect that someone who actually uses 80-90% of the battery to get somewhere will actually get better numbers than the GoM states. Something closer to a 25% loss in range compared to their normal summer range. We need more data!

I would do the experiment, but it doesn't get cold enough where I am.

 

[RickLightning]

Does anyone have ACTUAL range numbers in the cold versus the GoM numbers? I suspect that someone who actually uses 80-90% of the battery to get somewhere will actually get better numbers than the GoM states. Something closer to a 25% loss in range compared to their normal summer range. We need more data!

I would do the experiment, but it doesn't get cold enough where I am.

There's lots of data. Data as in the miles per kilowatt that you get. Then you can simply multiply that times the size of the battery.

A 30% loss is what you should expect. If it's bitterly cold, closer to 40%.

There are multiple posts where people have stated their drop. And you posted in at least 1...

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...taking-the-lightning.13029/page-6#post-279004

 

[lightspeed]

There's lots of data. Data as in the miles per kilowatt that you get. Then you can simply multiply that times the size of the battery.

A 30% loss is what you should expect. If it's bitterly cold, closer to 40%.

Yeah I've seen those numbers from various people.

What should you expect with preconditioning for a max range drive? Or is 30-40% WITH preconditioning?

 

[RickLightning]

Yeah I've seen those numbers from various people.

What should you expect with preconditioning for a max range drive? Or is 30-40% WITH preconditioning?

With.

Preconditioning warms the batter which is helpful for the FIRST LEG of the drive. As you drive, the battery will COOL, not warm (at least in 20 degree temps). My Mach-E dropped to 40 to 45 degrees. When you DC charge, it will warm up, I noted around 95 degrees. Then, as you drive, it will drop back to 40 to 45.

Anything below low 70s results in a drop in efficiency. How much depends on temps, speed you drive at, whether you're going up inclines or down, length of leg, etc.

I get 3.0 on the highway. I plan my trips at 2.8. In the winter, I got 2.3, so a 23% drop (only winter trip). I plan my winter driving at 2.1.

Then, as you drive, you see what reality is. Put that big resistance heater on set to 72, and you will noticeably cut your range. Set it on 68 and Auto (1), and use your seat and steering wheel heaters.

All of this is irrelevant if you're driving locally and don't need the range.

 

[metroshot]

With.

Preconditioning warms the batter which is helpful for the FIRST LEG of the drive. As you drive, the battery will COOL, not warm (at least in 20 degree temps). My Mach-E dropped to 40 to 45 degrees. When you DC charge, it will warm up, I noted around 95 degrees. Then, as you drive, it will drop back to 40 to 45.

Anything below low 70s results in a drop in efficiency. How much depends on temps, speed you drive at, whether you're going up inclines or down, length of leg, etc.

I get 3.0 on the highway. I plan my trips at 2.8. In the winter, I got 2.3, so a 23% drop (only winter trip). I plan my winter driving at 2.1.

Then, as you drive, you see what reality is. Put that big resistance heater on set to 72, and you will noticeably cut your range. Set it on 68 and Auto (1), and use your seat and steering wheel heaters.

All of this is irrelevant if you're driving locally and don't need the range.

Very useful info - thanks @RickLightning !

Use of seat heaters is much better than cabin heating for sure!

My temps don't get cold enough to turn on cabin heating, but the seat heaters are amazing!
Almost too warm for use in So Calif.

And since I am getting my 3rd EV: MME next year, I can also understand how similar it is to my Lightning.

 

[bydabeach]

I can't tell you the average time. I can tell you that last March my Mach-E took 1 hour and 18 minutes from start to finish. It will depend on the temp of the battery. Keep in mind you don't set anything but the time you plan on leaving, the truck will figure out when it needs to start the process.

On a local drive, or a drive where you're not using most of your range, the question is whether a departure time is cost effective vs. remote starting. The battery is colder with remote starting, and you'll get less power from it if you for example stomp on the pedal. But - what's the net cost difference?

A non-scientific experiment would be to find two comparable days with the same commute, and set a departure time for one and remote start the other and see how much energy you use in both the battery and from the house current.

Thank you for that. I need to do some experimenting, which is pretty much what I do at work (engineer/patents).

The shock of yesterday is wearing off, but was real after over Thanksgiving weekend (warmer and local drive with a lot of regenerative braking, I "consumed" half the miles than I actually drove--drove 20 miles, but consumed only 10 battery miles. Two totally different scenarios with warmer weather and a lot of local driving with regenerative braking.

For my pre-conditioning, I can probably work in a window of 2 to 2.5 hours and set it up to pre-condition at my scheduled leaving time in the morning. That should give the app and the vehicle enough time to warm the batteries. Thanks again for the help and tips.

 

[bydabeach]

Very useful info - thanks @RickLightning !

Use of seat heaters is much better than cabin heating for sure!

My temps don't get cold enough to turn on cabin heating, but the seat heaters are amazing!
Almost too warm for use in So Calif.

And since I am getting my 3rd EV: MME next year, I can also understand how similar it is to my Lightning.

Oh, you California folks don't have shrinkage issues like we have in the colder climate areas, but the seat heaters do fix that shrinkage issue experienced in the Seinfeld episode.

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