Elderly Couple Disgruntled with Sunrun's "Whole Home Backup" Home Integration System

[Aminorjourney]

That is solid good news. I have the same issue with how they are trying to force a critical loads panel. At least this tends to indicate that there is an option.

I really wanted to integrate the SPAN panel into the equation, so I could have an "automatic virtual critical loads panel". I've been following the journey of Nikki at Transport Evolved ( @Aminorjourney ) to see the outcome. But after their most recent status update video, now I am wondering if the SPAN is really ready for primetime.

To be clear, the SPAN panel has been fine - it's the SunRun system that's been misbehaving.

Even after we removed the SPAN panel from the equation, the SunRun system continued to have issues, and SunRun were still difficult to deal with.

Luckily though, things now appear to be working - and it seems just an overnight software update (perhaps?) got things working after our last video.

Tomorrow's video is uploading now. Here's the thumb

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[luebri]

I still cant wrap my head around the cost justification to you all doing this other than the (my wives an M.D. be damned the logic) but I am entertained and appreciate your knowledge share as you muscle thru getting this expensive carnival trick working.

In 15 years when V2G actually is a real world thing, then I can see an actual ROI to these setups. Assuming workplaces and households buy in.

 

[Jim Lewis]

I still cant wrap my head around the cost justification to you all doing this

My initial motivation was the "whole home backup" would be "green" or "greener" than an admittedly little-to-be-used (hopefully) gas generator, which would be noisy and have its own maintenance issues (our gas lines are slowly rusting outside our house!) - and we're responsible for everything beyond the gas meter. And I can't drive my gas generator around town. I wanted the FCSP as a level 2 charger - even though the 48-amp charger would do most of the time, why have to wait if I want to "fill 'er up" rapidly from time to time from the convenience of my garage - such as when I hear a disastrous storm, hurricane, or cold front is on the way, and I want the battery suddenly charged up as much as possible. The value of Sunrun's supposed 12-year warranty on the HIS remains to be seen, but rather than deal with some random local contractor who might not be around in 5 years, I'd rather deal with Ford's official partner and trust Ford to back their official partner's install. Maybe if I were a licensed electrician or a solar installer myself, I'd do it myself. But I'm not and am opting for Linus' blanket instead.

 

[luebri]

My initial motivation was the "whole home backup" while being "green" or "greener" than an admittedly little-to-be-used (hopefully) gas generator, which would be noisy and have its own maintenance issues (our gas lines are slowly rusting outside our house!) - and we're responsible for everything beyond the gas meter. And I can't drive my gas generator around town. I wanted the FCSP as a level 2 charger - even though the 48-amp charger would do most of the time, why have to wait if I want to "fill 'er up" rapidly from time to time from the convenience of my garage - such as when I hear a disastrous storm, hurricane, or cold front is on the way, and I want the battery suddenly charged up as much as possible. The value of Sunrun's supposed 12-year warranty on the HIS remains to be seen, but rather than deal with some random local contractor who might not be around in 5 years, I'd rather deal with Ford's official partner and trust Ford to back their official partner's install. Maybe if I were a licensed electrician or a solar installer myself, I'd do it myself. But I'm not and am opting for Linus' blanket instead.

So I keep reading you say "gas generator". My view on that term is dramatically different. Yes portable "Gasoline" generators are a bit of work to maintain and have ready to hookup. Mine is a 10,800-Watt peak/8,550-Watt rated (LPG) dual fuel and I have only run on propane until / if I need the full power of Gasoline. Then I will fill it with gas at that point and it can run my whole home via a safe mechanical interlock. Yes they are loud, that is a fair argument.

If that type of Gas generator is too dangerous or a pain in the butt, a natural gas standby generator is the logical choice and I am in the home state of the biggest player in that space (Generac) which are by no means loud at all. So I am really confused by the hangup. I would much rather be able to drive my ($80k) vehicle then drive the equivalent of my ($1k to $10k) gas or NG generator.

Again, I've been following along so if your wife wont reason with you then that is a you and her thing, but the majority consensus on this message board is Ford / Sunrun HIS is an expensive carnival trick and that is exactly what you are running into.

 

[Jim Lewis]

the majority consensus on this message board is Ford / Sunrun HIS is an expensive carnival trick

I guess I'm just a sucker for carnival tricks, e.g., awesome gaming computer with an Nvidia RTX 3090 GPU, a DJI Mavic 2 Pro drone, robotic vacuum cleaners, smartphones and smartwatches galore, etc., and a Ford Lightning and its accouterments are just one more form of entertainment... while waiting for Godot.

Especially with the supposed fire of a Lightning in Michigan, a Lightning in my garage might not be even as safe as a big gas generator. But as some say, life is a bit of a random walk. Sometimes rather random encounters or occurrences redirect the course of events in your life. I always liked the premise of the '90s TV show Felicity ( Felicity (TV series) - Wikipedia ), where the title character, on a spur of the moment thing, decides to follow her heartthrob to the "University of New York" rather than go to Stanford University as planned to be a premed. So, in Felicity's spirit, I'd rather go off on a random adventure with a Lightning and "Whole Home Backup" than shacking up with a gas generator.

 

[luebri]

Well, I ain’t mad at you. I truly appreciate your open book, but you can’t really complain about something when you are dead set on doing it regardless of whether the consensus tells you it’s going to be an expensive pain at best and if
you may never even get it working. A little different then a $200 robot vacuum

 

[Jim Lewis]

A little different then a $200 robot vacuum

My robotic vacuum cost $800 - but it's losing out to the cheaper competition! A Neato D7! The problem with robotic vacuums, at least mine, is that they eat fine Afghan wool rugs - and can scratch not-so-great bathroom tile if there's anything wrong with the way the brush is seated. Otherwise, it's been great, and goes places like under beds and dressers that humans have a hard time vacuuming.

 

[Aminorjourney]

I still cant wrap my head around the cost justification to you all doing this other than the (my wives an M.D. be damned the logic) but I am entertained and appreciate your knowledge share as you muscle thru getting this expensive carnival trick working.

In 15 years when V2G actually is a real world thing, then I can see an actual ROI to these setups. Assuming workplaces and households buy in.

For me? It's pretty simple: I live in the country and I have regular power cuts. My house was built in 2006 (on the site of a 1920s house) and it doesn't have anything other than electrically-powered stuff.

That includes our well, our heating, and our cooking

 

[Jim Lewis]

Consumer Reports on the safety of gas generators:

But while a generator can be a lifesaver during and after severe weather, it can be dangerous if you don’t take precautions. People tend to buy generators around major storms; working by flashlight, in a rush to get the power up and running, they might skip over critical safety steps during setup. Dozens of people die every year from carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning related to generators.

We don’t want you—or anyone relying on a generator—to be one of those people. Always use a generator outside, a minimum of 20 feet from your home, with the exhaust directed away from the house. And make sure your house is outfitted with working carbon monoxide detectors on every level of your home before you fire up a generator.

On the "quietness" of gas generators, I couldn't find OEMs advertising any dB levels, but Consumer Reports recommends ear protection when standing near them - that's how "quiet" they are.

The 9.6 kW of power a Lariat can produce is quite adequate for our household needs - it even meets our normal electricity usage. My problem is not the AMOUNT of power; it's Sunrun's default restrictive setup rules on how you can distribute the power according to the varying needs of our home. We bought a large home, but now that we're ancient and are kids are gone, we only need 1/3 or less the amount of power that might be normally needed to power our home for the average family. So, we got a truck with the equivalent of 10 or 11 Tesla Powerwalls, and the Ford Pass app is designed to manage that power if used for home backup. Driving probably 3,000 miles per year, I'll never use up my truck battery in the next 15 years of driving (if I live that long). The more green power added to the grid, the greener my home backup becomes. I presumably don't have to worry about any of the maintenance requirements you see in a gas generator manual or try to situate a gas generator 20 ft or more away from my house (and my neighbors' houses!) in the middle of my backyard (lovely!).

 

[Aminorjourney]

As a follow up…
We FINALLY Get To Power Our Home (And Studio) From Our Ford F150 Lightning!

 

[RickLightning]

Consumer Reports on the safety of gas generators:



On the "quietness" of gas generators, I couldn't find OEMs advertising any dB levels, but Consumer Reports recommends ear protection when standing near them - that's how "quiet" they are.

The 9.6 kW of power a Lariat can produce is quite adequate for our household needs - it even meets our normal electricity usage. My problem is not the AMOUNT of power; it's Sunrun's default restrictive setup rules on how you can distribute the power according to the varying needs of our home. We bought a large home, but now that we're ancient and are kids are gone, we only need 1/3 or less the amount of power that might be normally needed to power our home for the average family. So, we got a truck with the equivalent of 10 or 11 Tesla Powerwalls, and the Ford Pass app is designed to manage that power if used for home backup. Driving probably 3,000 miles per year, I'll never use up my truck battery in the next 15 years of driving (if I live that long). The more green power added to the grid, the greener my home backup becomes. I presumably don't have to worry about any of the maintenance requirements you see in a gas generator manual or try to situate a gas generator 20 ft or more away from my house (and my neighbors' houses!) in the middle of my backyard (lovely!).

A natural gas generator is already positioned properly away from the house.

Anyone who thinks a whole house generator is quiet has a hearing problem. Our 22kW generator produces 67dB(A) at 23 feet in normal load. That's 23 feet away. Next to it they don't specify.

Our neighborhood has a lot of whole house generators. In a power outage, it's very noisy.

 

[luebri]

For me? It's pretty simple: I live in the country and I have regular power cuts. My house was built in 2006 (on the site of a 1920s house) and it doesn't have anything other than electrically-powered stuff.

That includes our well, our heating, and our cooking

Yep that is a good reason! I did not know an "only electric" home was a thing. Here in Wisconsin anyone that does not have a natural gas supply has a large propane tank they run their home of at minimum for furnace and a lot of times for other items like stoves and dryers. Heating a home in our climate on 100% electricity would be very costly.

 

[luebri]

A natural gas generator is already positioned properly away from the house.

Anyone who thinks a whole house generator is quiet has a hearing problem. Our 22kW generator produces 67dB(A) at 23 feet in normal load. That's 23 feet away. Next to it they don't specify.

Our neighborhood has a lot of whole house generators. In a power outage, it's very noisy.

EXACTLY!

A natural gas Standby Generator is VERY VERY different than a Portable Gasoline generator. You mention a 22kw, if the 9.6kw from the truck is good enough than you can size down even further and get a 10kw unit closer to 60dB which is equivalent the dB level of a human conversation.

They also typically are able to be tucked next to a home no different than a AC unit which can be hidden by landscaping so they are not "eye sores".

You could do all this for less than what a HIS system costs and you can still drive your vehicle when you want to. Plus it adds value to the home for future sale, which a HIS install certainly will not.

 

[RickLightning]

EXACTLY!

A natural gas Standby Generator is VERY VERY different than a Portable Gasoline generator. You mention a 22kw, if the 9.6kw from the truck is good enough than you can size down even further and get a 10kw unit closer to 60dB which is equivalent the dB level of a human conversation.

They also typically are able to be tucked next to a home no different than a AC unit which can be hidden by landscaping so they are not "eye sores".

You could do all this for less than what a HIS system costs and you can still drive your vehicle when you want to. Plus it adds value to the home for future sale, which a HIS install certainly will not.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Perhaps soffit vents are not a thing where you folks live, @luebri and @RickLightning. Since we have soffit vents galore every 6 feet around our house, I think we're the sort of folks that Consumer Reports admonishes to keep a gas generator well away from one's house (our electrical outlets for example, are not sealed for air leakage into or from the dead airspaces of our house). My wife says asphyxia from carbon monoxide is something she knew about and one of the reasons she doesn't want a gas generator around (I hadn't thought about it before). She feels that any backup is a waste of money for our lifestyle and needs, but if I want to blow my money on the HIS backup, go right ahead and do it, she says. But no gas generators, no way.

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