Can the dealer refuse to sell ?

[idahospud]

We're in the 21st century, electronic consent and agreement is an actual thing.

Not having been through this with Ford yet, were there any pop-up screens or fine print view options as the order was being placed online?

Any experiences from Wave-1/2 or Bronco order folks care to chime in?

I did everything electronically in wave 1 but my dealer still followed up with a signed "Buyer's Order"

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[danofcolo]

We're in the 21st century, electronic consent and agreement is an actual thing.

Not having been through this with Ford yet, were there any pop-up screens or fine print view options as the order was being placed online?

Any experiences from Wave-1/2 or Bronco order folks care to chime in?

Here is the fine print: https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#order

I have complied with items 1 &2 the dealer has accepted, so I hope I am good to go. I really don't have any reason to think the dealer would not complete the deal as long as I show up and take delivery.

 

[Marshall]

Sadly I believe the answer is yes. In the current model the dealers have all the power. Would a dealer choose to do it? I hope not but that is why I shopped around for a dealer I felt I could trust and was selling at a fair price.

I have become an unwilling test subject for this. I was in wave 1 and my dealer did not add ADM on the line item on the order form and did accept the order. Then this Friday called and said that they were only getting 1 truck this year and as a result that they were adding $20k markup on a Lightning PRO, because "that's what they are going for". They then said that if I wanted, I could cancel and get my $1k deposit back so that they could configure the truck for somebody else. I did not agree to either cancelling or the upcharge.

As soon as I got off the phone with the dealer, I drove home and immediately called Ford customer support. After telling my story multiple times and being transferred after each, they said that they would escalate the issue and that it could take 5 days to get a response. I have not heard back yet. If I don't hear back by Wednesday, I will call Ford again.

After I got off of the phone with Ford, I realized that my dealer had texted me to say that "they knew how excited I was about the truck and that their GM was going to try to work with me." I will not be speaking with them again until after I get an answer from Ford on whether or not they actually care about their customers, or if documents are leaked just to positive press.

Also, for all those that are about to reply with, "That's why you should have got a buyer's order." Don't. It's not like you can force the dealer to give you one before you order online, which most say is preferred. The dealer isn't going to give you one before you make your order and since you can't change your dealer after your order, you have no leverage to make them do it then either. It is for this reason that the order should be binding. You have my order and my deposit and the dealer already had the opportunity to add ADM to the order process.

I will make sure to update this thread as I find anything out.

 

[130 Ghost_Riders]

I have become an unwilling test subject for this. I was in wave 1 and my dealer did not add ADM on the line item on the order form and did accept the order. Then this Friday called and said that they were only getting 1 truck this year and as a result that they were adding $20k markup on a Lightning PRO, because "that's what they are going for". They then said that if I wanted, I could cancel and get my $1k deposit back so that they could configure the truck for somebody else. I did not agree to either cancelling or the upcharge.

As soon as I got off the phone with the dealer, I drove home and immediately called Ford customer support. After telling my story multiple times and being transferred after each, they said that they would escalate the issue and that it could take 5 days to get a response. I have not heard back yet. If I don't hear back by Wednesday, I will call Ford again.

After I got off of the phone with Ford, I realized that my dealer had texted me to say that "they knew how excited I was about the truck and that their GM was going to try to work with me." I will not be speaking with them again until after I get an answer from Ford on whether or not they actually care about their customers, or if documents are leaked just to positive press.

Also, for all those that are about to reply with, "That's why you should have got a buyer's order." Don't. It's not like you can force the dealer to give you one before you order online, which most say is preferred. The dealer isn't going to give you one before you make your order and since you can't change your dealer after your order, you have no leverage to make them do it then either. It is for this reason that the order should be binding. You have my order and my deposit and the dealer already had the opportunity to add ADM to the order process.

I will make sure to update this thread as I find anything out.

I agree with you, if they accepted the order as is without any of their own caveats they should be stuck with their own mistake. If it wasn't for you doing the original reservation and order they wouldn't be getting a dealer stock truck.

 

[jfried]

Here is the fine print: https://www.ford.com/help/terms/reservations-payments-orders/#order

I have complied with items 1 &2 the dealer has accepted, so I hope I am good to go. I really don't have any reason to think the dealer would not complete the deal as long as I show up and take delivery.

Term 1 does allow the price to change -- and specifies that it's between you and the dealer to handle.

Ultimately, if you want to be protected -- sign a purchase agreement with the dealer themselves. It will eliminate any possibility of the price changing, or at least, put bounds on it.

 

[MickeyAO]

I have become an unwilling test subject for this. I was in wave 1 and my dealer did not add ADM on the line item on the order form and did accept the order. Then this Friday called and said that they were only getting 1 truck this year and as a result that they were adding $20k markup on a Lightning PRO, because "that's what they are going for". They then said that if I wanted, I could cancel and get my $1k deposit back so that they could configure the truck for somebody else. I did not agree to either cancelling or the upcharge.

As soon as I got off the phone with the dealer, I drove home and immediately called Ford customer support. After telling my story multiple times and being transferred after each, they said that they would escalate the issue and that it could take 5 days to get a response. I have not heard back yet. If I don't hear back by Wednesday, I will call Ford again.

After I got off of the phone with Ford, I realized that my dealer had texted me to say that "they knew how excited I was about the truck and that their GM was going to try to work with me." I will not be speaking with them again until after I get an answer from Ford on whether or not they actually care about their customers, or if documents are leaked just to positive press.

Also, for all those that are about to reply with, "That's why you should have got a buyer's order." Don't. It's not like you can force the dealer to give you one before you order online, which most say is preferred. The dealer isn't going to give you one before you make your order and since you can't change your dealer after your order, you have no leverage to make them do it then either. It is for this reason that the order should be binding. You have my order and my deposit and the dealer already had the opportunity to add ADM to the order process.

I will make sure to update this thread as I find anything out.

Posted this on another thread, but worth reposting here:

Time to put the fine print to work in your favor
Go to your order page, scroll down to Dealer Selling Price and click on the E20.

Dealer Selling Price: Price the dealer is willing to sell the vehicle for in purchase transaction and corresponds to the estimated dealer selling price for the vehicle displayed in Pricing Summary. Excludes....blah, blah, blah

Now scroll down to Order Deposit and click on E134

Order Deposit: The deposit your dealer will receive or has already received to process your order. The Order Deposit will be applied towards the purchase price of the vehicle. By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer's selling price for your selected vehicle.

Also make sure you have tweeted Mike Levine and post what your dealership is requesting, especially if it is in writing. If it is not in writing, tell them you will think about the ADM IF they send it to you in writing...tell them you want to make sure they don't raise the price even more (and then post that to Mike!)

 

[jazzmanmonty]

Term 1 does allow the price to change -- and specifies that it's between you and the dealer to handle.

Ultimately, if you want to be protected -- sign a purchase agreement with the dealer themselves. It will eliminate any possibility of the price changing, or at least, put bounds on it.

I think Term 1 refers to the invoice price changing from estimated to actual window sticker at delivery. That's how its stated on the back of the buyers order that the MSRP is subject to change. Some stated that the Mach E actual msrp was $3k less at delivery. So that's what i think it covers.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

This is what the back of buyers order says..sorry for crappy pic..was tough to get good shot without hooking up scanner (Lazy)

 

[F150ROD]

I have become an unwilling test subject for this. I was in wave 1 and my dealer did not add ADM on the line item on the order form and did accept the order. Then this Friday called and said that they were only getting 1 truck this year and as a result that they were adding $20k markup on a Lightning PRO, because "that's what they are going for". They then said that if I wanted, I could cancel and get my $1k deposit back so that they could configure the truck for somebody else. I did not agree to either cancelling or the upcharge.

As soon as I got off the phone with the dealer, I drove home and immediately called Ford customer support. After telling my story multiple times and being transferred after each, they said that they would escalate the issue and that it could take 5 days to get a response. I have not heard back yet. If I don't hear back by Wednesday, I will call Ford again.

After I got off of the phone with Ford, I realized that my dealer had texted me to say that "they knew how excited I was about the truck and that their GM was going to try to work with me." I will not be speaking with them again until after I get an answer from Ford on whether or not they actually care about their customers, or if documents are leaked just to positive press.

Also, for all those that are about to reply with, "That's why you should have got a buyer's order." Don't. It's not like you can force the dealer to give you one before you order online, which most say is preferred. The dealer isn't going to give you one before you make your order and since you can't change your dealer after your order, you have no leverage to make them do it then either. It is for this reason that the order should be binding. You have my order and my deposit and the dealer already had the opportunity to add ADM to the order process.

I will make sure to update this thread as I find anything out.

Tweet Levine, Farley and selling dealership. Put it on your Order Survey you are getting from Ford. Write online reviews if nothing changes. It works.

 

[jfried]

I think Term 1 refers to the invoice price changing from estimated to actual window sticker at delivery. That's how its stated on the back of the buyers order that the MSRP is subject to change. Some stated that the Mach E actual msrp was $3k less at delivery. So that's what i think it covers.

It says selling price is subject to change, not invoice or msrp. The dealer can certainly use that clause to up the price if they wish.

What you'd want from the dealer is confirmation that price would only change if msrp changes, and a confirmation of what additional fees will be tacked on.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

It says selling price is subject to change, not invoice or msrp. The dealer can certainly use that clause to up the price if they wish.

What you'd want from the dealer is confirmation that price would only change if msrp changes, and a confirmation of what additional fees will be tacked on.

No, it says the manufacturer (not dealer) reserves the right to change the list price (which would be sticker price) without notice.

So say Ford says these cost us $3k more to build, and you don't like it, u can cancel order or negotiate the change with the dealer.

 

[jfried]

No, it says the manufacturer (not dealer) reserves the right to change the list price (which would be sticker price) without notice.

So say Ford says these cost us $3k more to build, and you don't like it, u can cancel order or negotiate the change with the dealer.

By completing the Order Process you are not purchasing a vehicle, you are placing an order request with your Dealer. Your agreement to purchase the vehicle will be with your Dealer and not with Ford (the “Purchase Agreement”). You will execute that agreement with the Dealer at time of delivery of the vehicle. The Order Process allows you to: (i) configure a Vehicle by selecting an available model and options, and (ii) pay an Order Deposit directly to your selected Dealer. The amount of the Order Deposit varies by Dealer. By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer’s estimated selling price for your selected vehicle as displayed in the order summary page, which may differ from the MSRP. The Dealer’s final selling price may be subject to change—that is between you and the Dealer and will be reflected in your Purchase Agreement. Unless otherwise indicated, MSRP is the manufacturer suggested retail price and does not include destination/delivery fees, government fees and taxes, trade-in, finance charges, dealer processing charge, electronic filing charge, or emission testing charges. Optional equipment is also not included.



See the bolded in the paragraph above. It gives the dealership free reign to change the selling price up or down with no bounds.

If you want to be truly protected on the price side, you need to sign a purchase agreement with the dealer at the time of order, or at the very least, be given an email stating that X is the price you will pay, subject to any MSRP adjustments by ford.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

By completing the Order Process you are not purchasing a vehicle, you are placing an order request with your Dealer. Your agreement to purchase the vehicle will be with your Dealer and not with Ford (the “Purchase Agreement”). You will execute that agreement with the Dealer at time of delivery of the vehicle. The Order Process allows you to: (i) configure a Vehicle by selecting an available model and options, and (ii) pay an Order Deposit directly to your selected Dealer. The amount of the Order Deposit varies by Dealer. By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer’s estimated selling price for your selected vehicle as displayed in the order summary page, which may differ from the MSRP. The Dealer’s final selling price may be subject to change—that is between you and the Dealer and will be reflected in your Purchase Agreement. Unless otherwise indicated, MSRP is the manufacturer suggested retail price and does not include destination/delivery fees, government fees and taxes, trade-in, finance charges, dealer processing charge, electronic filing charge, or emission testing charges. Optional equipment is also not included.



See the bolded in the paragraph above. It gives the dealership free reign to change the selling price up or down with no bounds.

If you want to be truly protected on the price side, you need to sign a purchase agreement with the dealer at the time of order, or at the very least, be given an email stating that X is the price you will pay, subject to any MSRP adjustments by ford.

Well it seems we were both referencing different disclaimers.. I was focusing on the buyers order, which you are correct gives the best protection.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Sadly I believe the answer is yes. In the current model the dealers have all the power. Would a dealer choose to do it? I hope not but that is why I shopped around for a dealer I felt I could trust and was selling at a fair price.

Maybe that one dealer gained your trust just to screw you over. Why do you believe the dealer can refuse to sell? Experience? Or just a belief because you actually have no trust in them?
I actually don't really like mine, but at the first sign of them trying to screw me, I'm refusing to buy and going to carmax to get mine only because I don't want to drive all over SoCal just to find the least amount of as$%^le to deal with.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Maybe that one dealer gained your trust just to screw you over. Why do you believe the dealer can refuse to sell? Experience? Or just a belief because you actually have no trust in them?
I actually don't really like mine, but at the first sign of them trying to screw me, I'm refusing to buy and going to carmax to get mine only because I don't want to drive all over SoCal just to find the least amount of as$%^le to deal with.

Remember this [OLD] thread was filled with speculation & fear of what dealers were going to do or not do while we were waiting for first ordering and builds to be scheduled, ADM was in the air and many buyers were on the fence about what they would do when confronted with outrageous markups.

It became clear to me after listening to Tim @FordVideoGuy weekly seminars, that the MoCo has special order compliance process to penalize dealers playing games, if they didn't close the sale with the original order maker, the dealers would be suspected of souring a sale with original customers in pursuit of highest ADM's from the people with money to waste. The penalty could be lost allocations!

That knowledge helped me quell my own fears about how my dealer was going to treat me on delivery day, as it turned out [TASCA FORD] did me good all around.

Now that the tide has turned, no ADM's and the MoCo and well as dealers compelled to move inventory off the lots it's once again a buyers market.

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