Trying to use ProPower with Transfer Switch

[Phoenix_one]

I have Transfer Switch installed on my house. It works just fine with a standard generator (4.5 kW).
It is a Reliance PRO/TRAN 2 (6 Switch).

I get the Ground Fault Error when connecting to the Pro Power on the Lightning. I use a 100 Feet 10 Gauge, NEMA L14-30P/L14-30R generator cable to make the connection.

I have called several Electric Companies (Sunrun, Qmerit, and local ones) and whoever they send they have no idea how to address the problem. Some of them were genuinely confused at what I was trying to do.

What do I need to say to the electrician so they can resolve the issue?

I appreciate any input.

Thanks

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[Fastnf]

You need a three pole transfer switch. There are many threads covering this on the site. Here is one of them. If you use the search you will find others

 

[cdherman]

do a search. Neutral-ground bonding

There are several solutions. Some easy, some less. I am not going to suggest which since you should read the various threads first.

I can explain the "problem" -- your electrical system has the neutral and the ground bonded (attached together) somewhere. Per code these days, it occurs properly one place and one place ONLY in each system. Usually in the main breaker panel (properly called load center) which would come right after your meter. You *might* have a main breaker somewhere between the meter and the load center, but this is kind of installation dependent to make it simple. Somewhere, there is a main breaker though. That main breaker kills each leg of the 240v AC that is coming from your power co. Your power co does not provide neutral. Or ground for that matter.

Well, your truck inverter/breaker is a ground fault breaker. Its made to be used at a job site where tools are being used that could experience a ground or neutral fault. GFI breakers detect when current is returning to the breaker along a path OTHER than neutral. Since ground and neutral are bonded at your load center (and perhaps in your generator switch as well) your truck is seeing a ground fault and tripping. Some of the "neutral" current is getting back to the truck via the ground.

Read up on this. And the solutions.

 

[Tony Burgh]

If you have to explain to your electrician then find another one.

 

[Phoenix_one]

If you have to explain to your electrician then find another one.

Good help is hard to find.

Is frustrating when reaching companies that "supposed to know what they are doing" and explain the problem, they send someone who's knowledge is obviously lacking.

So, if I get this correct, wasted money in installing an incorrect transfer switch.

What I really needed is a Three-pole Manual Transfer panel with a Sequentially-switched Neutral to be installed.

 

[MickeyAO]

Good help is hard to find.

Is frustrating when reaching companies that "supposed to know what they are doing" and explain the problem, they send someone who's knowledge is obviously lacking.

So, if I get this correct, wasted money in installing an incorrect transfer switch.

What I really needed is a Three-pole Manual Transfer panel with a Sequentially-switched Neutral to be installed.

One of the threads has a video on what actually works. I sent that to a company that figured out what really needs to be done. They sent back a quote for $5k (what I expected) and I'm debating if I really need to do this. Yes, Texas got hit with prolonged outages a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure I want to invest that much in this house.

 

[flyct]

I have Transfer Switch installed on my house. It works just fine with a standard generator (4.5 kW).
It is a Reliance PRO/TRAN 2 (6 Switch).

I get the Ground Fault Error when connecting to the Pro Power on the Lightning. I use a 100 Feet 10 Gauge, NEMA L14-30P/L14-30R generator cable to make the connection.

I have called several Electric Companies (Sunrun, Qmerit, and local ones) and whoever they send they have no idea how to address the problem. Some of them were genuinely confused at what I was trying to do.

What do I need to say to the electrician so they can resolve the issue?

I appreciate any input.

Thanks

Do a google search for ford propower ground fault and look at the Reddit responses. .

1- My truck powers my RV fine. Neutrals and grounds are separated In the RV panel
2- My truck powers my shed sub panel with a transfer interlock switch fine (neutrals and grounds are separated in a sub panel)
3- My portable gas generator powers my house fine with a transfer interlock switch. (Neutral and grounds are tied together and generator is fine with that)

4- My portable gas generator requires a neutral/ground bonding plug to power my RV that has an EMS

5- My truck pro-power will fault out if connected to my generator inlet using an interlock bypass kit.

 

[Thunder1809]

I have the same problem with my transfer switch that I had installed 18 years ago to use with my gas generator. I got the bonded neutral issue as well when I plugged the truck in. So I have had 3 electricians out to give me quotes on how to fix it. One understood but wanted $5500 to put in isolation switches to make it work. The second wanted $2700 to put in a sub panel and interlock on the main panel. The third said he would replace my current transfer switch with a new transfer switch for $500 if I get the switch.

I have been doing some research to understand about bonded neutrals to try to understand so I can get the panel that will work. There are several YouTube folks that can explain why neutrals and ground are bonded in the main panel but never in the sub panel. Below is one of them but you can search for others. So your transfer switch will need to switch the neutrals in to work with your ProPower.



On page 47 in the link below starts the 3 pole section of Reliance transfer switches and a diagram on page 49 how the switch works. I think this is what I’m going to look into. Would appreciate if there are other solutions others would recommend.
https://api.reliancecontrols.com/media/DAFD6723826113254930/DAFL6723827471620578.pdf

 

[TaxmanHog]

I love Dustin's channel, lot's of great content for electricians to maintain the certifications and to educate novice and DIY project people, DO NOT defeat the intent of grounding conductors and the safety provisions on our Lightning PPOB system!

 

[v2h8484]

Autotransformer is another possible solution for the neutral-ground bond issue. As your electrician to get more info.

 

[dmd3home]

I think what v2h8484 actually means is why not use an "ISOLATION TRANSFORMER"? This would be a 240V to 240V transformer as the first (and only) connection from the Pro-Power 240V truck outlet. This avoids the bonded neutral problem altogether as the truck now is simply feeding a primary winding in a transformer and nothing else! What ever happens on the secondary winding, ground faults, transfer switches etc. is completely electrically isolated and unaffected by/from the truck and its GFI circuitry. The truck remains "isolated".
This is the solution I'm looking at but, so far, don't know anyone who's done this. Isolation transformers are not cheap, but I've seen some for around $1200 for a 15kW unit more than capable of the job.
An isolation transformer might have the added benefit of maybe "cleaning up" the output of the Pro-Power Onboard inverter output. Although I haven't inspected the trucks output with an oscilloscope, typically inverters produce a bit of a square wave which can be unacceptable to some sensitive electronics. By running it through a transformer first this could help "round off" the square wave making it closer to the more desirable sine wave.
I'm hoping someone has already taken this route and would love to see how it worked for them. Please post!

 

[v2h8484]

I think what v2h8484 actually means is why not use an "ISOLATION TRANSFORMER"?

An isolation transformer would also work but it's significantly less efficient and more costly.
Autotransformer is very efficient, lighter and less costly. Example, here is an UL compliant AT (https://powerstore.com/goodwe-autotransformer-sku-part-number-gw9600a-tx.html).

 

[Henry Ford]

One of the threads has a video on what actually works. I sent that to a company that figured out what really needs to be done. They sent back a quote for $5k (what I expected) and I'm debating if I really need to do this. Yes, Texas got hit with prolonged outages a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure I want to invest that much in this house.

Is that a quote for an manual transfer switch (e.g. Generac 6852)? If so that seems high. It's a fair bit of labor but that's about 10x more than I have into my self install.

 

[MickeyAO]

Is that a quote for an manual transfer switch (e.g. Generac 6852)? If so that seems high. It's a fair bit of labor but that's about 10x more than I have into my self install.

New panel in front of main panel (which becomes a subpanel). Included city turning off power, inspections, etc.

While this would be an easier way to get through a power outage, I think I'm just going to look at big ass extension cords to power specific devices (heaters) during long outages.

 

[dmd3home]

An isolation transformer would also work but it's significantly less efficient and more costly.
Autotransformer is very efficient, lighter and less costly. Example, here is an UL compliant AT (https://powerstore.com/goodwe-autotransformer-sku-part-number-gw9600a-tx.html).

I'm not that familiar with an autotransformer, but from what I see, it has a direct electrical connection between the the primary coil (the truck) and the secondary (the load...house circuit etc.). I don't see how this would eliminate the ground fault due to the bonded neutral at the main panel. Wouldn't the truck's GFIC still see that ground and trip? However, an isolation transformer has a primary (connected to the truck side) that has NO direct electrical connection to your load (the secondary side) as it has only an inductive connection between the truck and the load....thus completely isolating the truck GFI circuitry from the house load with the bonded neutral. But, it is passing full (almost), "isolated" power to your house. Transformers are typically 95%-98% .....I'll take that slight loss to completely eliminate the truck GFI tripping issue.

But, I'm just theorizing here...I'm trying to find someone who has actually done this....or used an autotransformer with success....or an even better method. Which works the best? Please share.

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