Best practices for extending the LIFE of the battery?

[MickeyAO]

Long time, no see!!

On here daily, but rarely respond to posts.

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[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Top voltage for our packs is around 4.09, not 4.06. You con monitor this through the obd connector.

I would like to know for sure the top voltage of a 100% charged Lightning pack.
I have seen 390 v (which is 4.06v per cell)
if the actual top voltage per cell is 4.09 then 100% is then 392.6v

To reply to post #12 and #13, the actual Vmax for the cells is 4.15 V, plus/minus 0.05 V

If this is right, then the top voltage of the pack is between 393.6v and 403.2v

I have a scanner - I will do my own check, and report back.

The point of my post was to show that "100% charge" as the truck reports it, is quite a bit lower than the full range of the cell voltage curve, and to bring attention to the impact of heat if the truck is parked for long periods at high SOC as this risk seems less well-known.

 

[Firn]

I would like to know for sure the top voltage of a 100% charged Lightning pack.
I have seen 390 v (which is 4.06v per cell)
if the actual top voltage per cell is 4.09 then 100% is then 392.6v


If this is right, then the top voltage of the pack is between 393.6v and 403.2v

I have a scanner - I will do my own check, and report back.

The point of my post was to show that "100% charge" as the truck reports it, is quite a bit lower than the full range of the cell voltage curve, and to bring attention to the impact of heat if the truck is parked for long periods at high SOC as this risk seems less well-known.

Mikey is talking about maximum for the battery technology, 4.15v plus or minus .05 is otherwise considered the maximum safe voltage for NMC chemistry. As he says though the BMS won't charge that high and that isn't our "100%".

If you need to verify yourself then grab your scanner, but I have, and reported cell voltage is 4.08-4.09 at 100% charge.

100% charge is lower than it could be, although I think we might disagree on the "quite a bit" however. And degradation at 4.09, although much better than it would be at 4.15, is still going to be there.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I have been lead to believe the Lightning is using the Li-NiMnCo 9.5.5 (90% nickel) version of the NMC chemistry - would like to confirm this...if anyone has a definitive source.

 

[Firn]

I have been lead to believe the Lightning is using the Li-NiMnCo 9.5.5 (90% nickel) version of the NMC chemistry - would like to confirm this...if anyone has a definitive source.

Look in Mikey's post history, he listed the chemistry at one point.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Look in Mikey's post history, he listed the chemistry at one point.

Thanks I looked back through some posts.
It appears the max Resting Voltage of the Lightning pack is 390-392 volts.

This translates in a 96s pack to 4.06 to 4.08 volts per cell.

From the paper by Dr Dahn, the 90% nickel cells have a 'top voltage' of 4.4volts, however significant deterioration occurs above 4.2volts, as well as potential off-gassing (ie bad).
His research leads to recommendation of staying below "75%" SOC which is 4.06v.
He demonstrates a pack cycled daily would still have 80% + of original capacity after 14 years if the charge cycles stay below the 4.06v level (at 20-degrees C).
We are being very 'safe' if we charge daily to 80-85% I believe.

 

[Firn]

Thanks I looked back through some posts.
It appears the max Resting Voltage of the Lightning pack is 390-392 volts.

This translates in a 96s pack to 4.06 to 4.08 volts per cell.

From the paper by Dr Dahn, the 90% nickel cells have a 'top voltage' of 4.4volts, however significant deterioration occurs above 4.2volts, as well as potential off-gassing (ie bad).
His research leads to recommendation of staying below "75%" SOC which is 4.06v.
He demonstrates a pack cycled daily would still have 80% + of original capacity after 14 years if the charge cycles stay below the 4.06v level (at 20-degrees C).
We are being very 'safe' if we charge daily to 80-85% I believe.

Sure, maybe. Monitor the cells, that will tell you the exact voltage at 100% SOC. As you point out 4.4 may be the destruction value of the cells but 4.2 is the max working voltage. The 4.15 plus or minus .05 that was pointed out, which is pretty common for NMC cells.

I will say that 80% capacity after 5000 cycles of 75% DOD is pretty optimistic. That said, 68 degrees F is a lot lower than most of our batteries will spend their lives at. Still, most of us won't use 75% dod every day either.

 

[Randys Lightning]

So 75 degrees in Cincinnati today went for a cruise in the suburbs 30-50 mph, all windows open no climate control on K03s 3.1 m kwh Sweet

 

[astrand1]

For me, KISS:
Home L2 charge to 90% - I want the range and options for whatever may come my way the next day.

CCS fast charge to 80% max unless I'm in a charging desert and need more range, but it is VERY slow charging once it hits 80% SOC - plus this need is unlikely now with access to the Tesla network.

“Kiss”??

 

[potato]

“Kiss”??

Keep It Simple, Stupid

A common acronym.

 

[astrand1]

Keep It Simple, Stupid

A common acronym.

Yeah now that you say it I remember but could not think what it was. There are so many acronyms now that it’s hard to remember them all.

 

[G-Zeus]

“Kiss”??

Keep It Simple, Stupid
Or
Keep it Stupid Simple

 

[jobofly79]

Ok I have read close to every post about plugging in everyday and I want to verify what I think is right. Never charge above 90% unless needed for road trip, never go below 20% unless you have no other choice. So the question I still have is, do I plug it in every night to charge to 90% even if I only used 20% that day? For example, I charged it to 90% last night and with my driving today I am sitting at 70%. Do I charge it back up to 90% over night? Is it better to plug in every night whether it is needed or not?

 

[Firn]

Ok I have read close to every post about plugging in everyday and I want to verify what I think is right. Never charge above 90% unless needed for road trip, never go below 20% unless you have no other choice. So the question I still have is, do I plug it in every night to charge to 90% even if I only used 20% that day? For example, I charged it to 90% last night and with my driving today I am sitting at 70%. Do I charge it back up to 90% over night? Is it better to plug in every night whether it is needed or not?

The battery will live longest the closest it is to 50%. If you use 20% daily you should charge up to 60%, so it drains to 40%, charges back to 60%, etc. Or if you can charge at work plug in twice a day and go from 45-55% twice a day.

For most such a low number would be very limiting. You should charge up to a value that is as low as is comfortable. That could be 60%, or 80, 75, 95, etc.

In the end if your absolute goal is to maximize battery life charge up to as low of a number as works for you and then charge as often as you can, even if that's two or three times a day.

Again, for most that would be crazy. So we pick some number (mine is 85%) and i charge to that every night. Sometimes I only use 10% of the battery (so down to 75%), other days I'm down to 35%.

There is no magic number. Keep it as low as works for you and charge as often as you can. Just remember, this is the new "should I change my oil every 3,000 miles, or the recomended 5,000" the vast majority will never realize any difference in their lives, so don't stress over it.

 

[Zprime29]

I would like to know for sure the top voltage of a 100% charged Lightning pack.
I have seen 390 v (which is 4.06v per cell)
if the actual top voltage per cell is 4.09 then 100% is then 392.6v

Here's mine after charging from 14% to 100%:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/100-range-test-follow-along.25107/post-486237

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