Class Action Lawsuit - Home Integration System

[Runaway Tractor]

Here is the thread with the YouTube. Video a few posts down.
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/his-with-ac-coupled-solar.16888/

Sorry but there is NOTHING in that thread or video that indicates or shows DC charging into the truck. In fact nothing shows any charging at all, whether it is or isn't. He's guessing and not actually saying anything factual. Furthermore, he claims his charge limit is set for 90%, discharged to 89%, and now magically at 92%. So just totally unregulated blindly dumping DC back into the truck? No. It's not. That's not happening. No system would ever be manufactured to do that. The flashing green light on the FCSP indicates quote " The station is powered by battery backup, plugged in and discharging "

Also, you're suggesting that Ford, Siemens, and Sunrun all just forgot to document this Level 3 charging function?

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[v2h8484]

I find this highly unlikely. There is NOTHING onboard any of the HIS components the regulate HVDC charging. There is no level 3 charging communication between the truck and FCSP. There is no way this is possible.

The truck most likely does not do anything to explicitly support or block DC charging in the setup. However, once the truck closes the HV battery contactor (for discharging) then no comms are required to charge the battery. The Delta inverter is bidirectional so it will simply push any excess solar power back through the closed HV battery contactor to the truck.

 

[tearitupsports]

The truck most likely does not do anything to explicitly support or block DC charging in the setup. However, once the truck closes the HV battery contactor (for discharging) then no comms are required to charge the battery. The Delta inverter is bidirectional so it will simply push any excess solar power back through the closed HV battery contactor to the truck.

Exactly this. The Delta inverter is a 400v system and has no issue sending energy back the the truck. The truck does not display what is going on properly but it is working. In the video he notes that it charged 4% while on the HIS off grid. It would be slower than the level 2 AC charging.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

I'm aware the inverter CAN work in both directions. Just like it would with a 400vdc power wall.

What I'm saying is that no engineer with a brain would set it up to allow that. Arbitrarily pushing random excess power into the truck battery is dangerous and unrealistic. And again, where is this "feature" documented?

Assuming what the guy says is true and actually happened, that sounds like a configuration problem on the inverter since I'm not aware of any documentation for this to be enabled.

All that said, if it was mine, I'd probably try to configure it to do that, but very very carefully with safety of the truck battery in mind.

 

[v2h8484]

What I'm saying is that no engineer with a brain would set it up to allow that. Arbitrarily pushing random excess power into the truck battery is dangerous and unrealistic.

Lol ... the same engineer that decided to use Bluetooth for a critical control function?

Based on all the reports in this forum It should be clear that Ford has overlooked many things in this contraption. Having said that, I am pretty sure the truck battery BMS will still shutdown the battery if necessary to prevent overcharging related safety issues.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Lol ... the same engineer that decided to use Bluetooth for a critical control function?

Based on all the reports in this forum It should be clear that Ford has overlooked many things in this contraption. Having said that, I am pretty sure the truck battery BMS will still shutdown the battery if necessary to prevent overcharging related safety issues.

LOL exactly. I would hope it has some safety that will open the HV relays when the battery is full. But who knows what those conditions are.

 

[Jim Lewis]

a new FCSP with 2.112.91:2.149:1.32:1.53:0.62 software, and the newest inverter software (revision 1. if memory serves?

Here's a hint that progress is crawling along, perhaps in an effort by Ford to finally get the HIS unit out of class action territory. Prompted by @Aminorjourney's post, I took a look at my long-ignored inverter via the M Professional app and just found another inverter firmware update. I had been at 1.1.21 since October 2023 and was surprised tonight to find I'd been updated to 1.1.33 since August 2024, with 1.1.34 available when I just checked tonight:

I checked to see if there was a Delta inverter system log. The best I could come up with is, when logged into my inverter via the M Professional app, go to Menu, Analysis, Log, EVSE Log, then hit the SCAN button (top right). Here's what I get:

The first date, 6/12/2023, was the date the system was installed and rendered active by Sunrun. The 10/7/2023 date is the approximate date window that the 1.1.21 firmware self-installed based on my following post: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...backup-power-without-sunrun.12564/post-342129. I bet 9/1/2024 was the date the inverter updated itself to firmware 1.1.33. And the date and time on 10/7/2024 is when I manually updated to 1.1.34. Would be nice to have info from Ford on what each update was supposed to do for the system...

 

[Aminorjourney]

Yesterday, I did ANOTHER test of our HIS. Prior to this most recent round of updates, I had to park my Truck off to one side on some gravel next to our driveway, skewed at 45 degrees to our Chicken coop so that the HIS would actually talk to the truck.

However, yesterday, I was able to plug the truck in while it was parked ON our driveway, and it worked 100%! This hopefully means the communications have been fixed betwixt charge station pro and truck.

(My wife fixing the chicken coop has nothing to do with this lol)

We ran it for about an hour with no problems.

As with the last test we did, we noticed no dramatic changes in voltage while the test was running, with draw as loss as 1.6 kW and as high as 8 kW. The Delta team seem to have tweaked the tolerances for power supply, which should mean no more flickering lights when the pump house turns on one of our well pumps.

I also turned on the truck while it was powering the home and checked that it could still provide pro power. It could on all sockets (although I didn't put a high load test on)

 

[Wattsgas]

Yesterday, I did ANOTHER test of our HIS. Prior to this most recent round of updates, I had to park my Truck off to one side on some gravel next to our driveway, skewed at 45 degrees to our Chicken coop so that the HIS would actually talk to the truck.

However, yesterday, I was able to plug the truck in while it was parked ON our driveway, and it worked 100%! This hopefully means the communications have been fixed betwixt charge station pro and truck.

(My wife fixing the chicken coop has nothing to do with this lol)

We ran it for about an hour with no problems.

As with the last test we did, we noticed no dramatic changes in voltage while the test was running, with draw as loss as 1.6 kW and as high as 8 kW. The Delta team seem to have tweaked the tolerances for power supply, which should mean no more flickering lights when the pump house turns on one of our well pumps.

I also turned on the truck while it was powering the home and checked that it could still provide pro power. It could on all sockets (although I didn't put a high load test on)
[/

Thank you for all of your documentation and work on tracking and working toward solving the intermittent Ford sometimes Intelligent Power backup system.

 

[Aminorjourney]

Here's a hint that progress is crawling along, perhaps in an effort by Ford to finally get the HIS unit out of class action territory. Prompted by @Aminorjourney's post, I took a look at my long-ignored inverter via the M Professional app and just found another inverter firmware update. I had been at 1.1.21 since October 2023 and was surprised tonight to find I'd been updated to 1.1.33 since August 2024, with 1.1.34 available when I just checked tonight:

I checked to see if there was a Delta inverter system log. The best I could come up with is, when logged into my inverter via the M Professional app, go to Menu, Analysis, Log, EVSE Log, then hit the SCAN button (top right). Here's what I get:

The first date, 6/12/2023, was the date the system was installed and rendered active by Sunrun. The 10/7/2023 date is the approximate date window that the 1.1.21 firmware self-installed based on my following post: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...backup-power-without-sunrun.12564/post-342129. I bet 9/1/2024 was the date the inverter updated itself to firmware 1.1.33. And the date and time on 10/7/2024 is when I manually updated to 1.1.34. Would be nice to have info from Ford on what each update was supposed to do for the system...

Glad to be of help!

Without divulging my actual address (because, hey, this is the internet and people aren't always that nice) - I'm in an area with absolutely abysmal cellphone reception (foothills of the Coast Range) so I usually manually check once or twice a month.

I would *love* to know if you suffered fluctuations in voltage before this update and, after applying it, if those fluctuations have gone away?

 

[Jim Lewis]

I would *love* to know if you suffered fluctuations in voltage before this update and, after applying it, if those fluctuations have gone away?

You don't say how you observed those fluctuations - or I missed it. I have never observed voltage fluctuations large enough to cause lights to flicker or anything like that, but I've never tried to measure the line output directly during BPT (backup power transfer). I always test my system when the current draw is very low, < 0.5 kW, so that might be a factor. The only "power-hungry" device that is typically on during any BPT test is our refrigerator. The rating plate on it says it only draws 7.2A at 120V.

There might be a way to record line output via M Professional directly. If you go to Menu, Analysis, History, System History Charts, you'll find all sorts of data for the last 10 days of operation. Early this morning, when I was playing around with M Professional, there was a plethora of data, but only for 10/2/24, the day I did the backup power transfer tests I've reported. This evening, for some unknown reason, those charts are now blank. Here's an example of one set of many charts that was full of data earlier today (I don't know whether the inverter firmware update erased the history? - there's still some EVSE truck charging data left, though). There were real units on the Y-axis of the charts and real times from midnight to about 5 AM along the x-axis when I checked earlier today. Now all that's gone.

One confusing, perhaps erroneous graphing of the data points previously displayed is that they were all connected by straight lines, point to point, giving very saw-toothed curves. My interpretation was that the only purpose of the lines was to connect the data points - that they revealed nothing about the state of the system between data points.

What I should do is perform another backup power transfer and immediately after I terminate it, return to these history charts and see if data populate them. IIRC, voltage, and kW power output were also one of the many available output/history charts.

A further comment relative to my previous post is that it is possible to trigger a manual inverter firmware update if you see a RED "Update Available" message on the main screen of M Professional. Otherwise, the firmware will eventually auto-update itself. I'll skip providing any manual update instructions.

I may also be on new FCSP firmware. Since at least 8/11/24, I've had an update pending notice in my FCSP settings as shown in FordPass: Ford Motor Company has the MOST sophisticated OTA update system...??? | Page 4 | Ford Lightning Forum For F-150 Lightning EV Pickup: News, Owners, Discussions, Community (f150lightningforum.com).

IIRC, sometimes such updates go through, and the notice just keeps hanging around.

 

[Jim Lewis]

The UNLOCK button trick continues to rescue failed power transfer tests for me: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...nt-backup-power-is-up-ahead.18856/post-425348

In the early AM of 10/8/24, I tried two further backup power transfers (BPTs). My truck had been driven 20 or 30 miles in the past few days, charged the day before, and just sat ~24 hours plugged into my FCSP before the tests. The truck started each test turned off and plugged in.

The first test failed to initiate automatic power transfer. I deliberately waited > 3 minutes before manually rescuing the transfer to demonstrate some delay wouldn't matter. I pressed the charger port UNLOCK button to the right of the charger head, removed the charger head, waited ~20", plugged in again, and about 50" later, the port LEDs turned green, pulsed at 57" after replug, and lights came on at ~1'25" after replug. After running the transfer for >21 minutes, I let the truck sit unplugged for 11' before plugging it into the FCSP again.

The second test automatically transferred power. Port LEDs turned green at 46" and flashed at 55", and the garage lights came on at 1'19" after cutting grid power.

So, since 10/2/24, I've performed 11 transfer tests in a row that all worked. Only 5 of 11 worked automatically. The other 6 of 11 required the workaround of unlocking the charger head with the button to the right of the port, waiting at least 15 to 20 sec, and replugging the charger head.

 

[Jim Lewis]

In my second previous post above, I mentioned that the M Professional app, available in the App Store and on Google Play, can log Delta BDI inverter performance. Here is what the app shows in the System History charts (Menu, Analysis, History, System History Charts) for the two backup transfer tests described in the previous posts done between 12:12 AM and 1:10 AM CDT on 10/8/24.

I'm showing all System History Charts. I have no photovoltaic systems attached (and it was nighttime, too!).

So, there are a number of anomalous things about these charts, and I haven't been able to find a detailed guide or manual for the M Professional app on the Internet.

First, although the span of the BPT tests was from 12:12 AM to 1:10 AM and the app was run at 1:25 AM, the System History Charts do not capture the whole timespan the Delta Inverter was powered by the Dark Start battery (or the truck). The apparent span of the graphs is only 36 minutes, whereas grid power was out (with a brief intermission) of 13 minutes over 58 minutes.

There is a time delay in data processing, as shown in the System History Charts. There was nothing in the graphs immediately after the first test outage. Ten or fifteen minutes after the outage, the next time I checked, the graphs were populated with data. So perhaps the graphs only being populated at 00:25 has something to do with that delay. I am perhaps wrongly assuming that the ordinate shows MINUTES and not seconds.

The graphs make sense if we go to the end of the charts. Heat sink temperatures are rising as the test proceeds. It may seem paradoxical that the overall system temperature (last chart) was falling at the same time, but the truck was in an open garage at 83F, and the outside temperature was 73F. Twenty-two minutes later (during the 1st transfer test), the garage temperature had fallen to 80F.

Assuming the units on the ordinate are minutes and not seconds (supported by the observation that the length of the chart ordinate(x-axis) was extended between 12:37 AM and 1:25 AM; if it were seconds, there would be no reason to extend the ordinate as one goes minutes more into the test runs), the time interval for logging data appears to be ONLY ONCE EVERY FIVE MINUTES. The data points appear connected by straight lines, giving the saw-toothed graph appearance I noted in a previous post above.

Going further back towards the start of the charts, the AC Voltage and the AC Frequency graphs make little sense. There is no change in the abscissa values (Y-axis) with time. A pollyanna interpretation of those charts would be that there is so little deviation from the value displayed on the Y-axis that a difference cannot be discerned, e.g., the frequency is always 60.00 +/- 0.01 V, and the system can't detect a deviation to 60.1 or 59.9 V ....haha.

I didn't search very hard, but I couldn't find any options in Settings to change the values displayed on the X- or Y-axes of the System History Charts.

The M Professional app is incredibly powerful. It would just be nice to know how to use it properly.

 

[tearitupsports]

So I went ahead and tested my system today for the first time in a couple of weeks. The first time I was in my driveway with the frunk up, and it would not come on.
I then disconnected everything closed the frunk and pulled up closer to the garage (still completely outside). This time it worked perfectly. It appears that the frunk is a viable bluetooth blocking device.

On a separate note I also confirmed (as others have mentioned) that Pro Power onboard works once the HIS system is up and running. The truck does have to be on for PPO as is normal. The initial HIS exchange shuts off the truck, so PPO always will have to be enabled 2nd after the truck is turned back on.

To get back on topic though, I am not sure a class action suit is viable or warranted at this point. You just need to have the current system software for all components.

BTW my system is not registered with Ford. There is nothing else needing to be done to make it work other than the current software revision. I installed mine myself.

 

[Jim Lewis]

It appears that the frunk is a viable bluetooth blocking device.

Correlation is not causation. In my BPT experience, simply unplugging and replugging the truck can reactivate a failed backup power transfer event. You did that and you moved the truck closer to the FCSP/HIS unit, presumably, too. So, whether the frunk up was blocking Bluetooth, whether the truck was too far away the first time, or whether something needed to be reset by unplugging and replugging the charger head is not clear from what you did.

Although I know how to run FDRS and FORScan, I haven't run either recently to see what modules I have. And I wouldn't say my system is running perfectly. It did recently perform BPT 11/11 times, but 6 of those 11 times, I needed to unlock the charger head (button to right of head), unplug the charger head, wait at least 15 sec, and replug to reactivate failed initial BPTs.

Do you have a list of module firmware in your truck? I could try to provide a list of what's in my truck, and we could see if there's a difference. It would be a learning curve for me, but I'll give it a try.

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