do i need bigger battery upgrade if only using 1 or twice a year of long road trips?

[sotek2345]

Yah, I noticed that -- my CYA was to say you could see 15 minutes better on my times

One thing I noticed in ABRP is that they include an "idle" time for charge - to get connected, get the system running, etc. I believe it defaulted to 10 minutes when I looked, but it could be 15 minutes. so that time is getting added to your charging time at each stop.

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[Blainestang]

One thing I noticed in ABRP is that they include an "idle" time for charge - to get connected, get the system running, etc. I believe it defaulted to 10 minutes when I looked, but it could be 15 minutes. so that time is getting added to your charging time at each stop.

Ah, good point. I thought about that possibility, too, but it seemed too far off.

If they count the travel time to the charger, the "idle" time should be really small, I would think.

15-69% should take about 34 mins of actual charging (since the rate is almost exactly 150kW all the way from 15-80), so they'd be adding 15 mins to get to 49 mins.

10-49% should take ~24.6 mins, which would mean 15 mins to get to 40 mins.

Hmm... yeah, seems like it's 15 mins. That's stupidly high, IMO, since they're already counting the travel time to the charger. But at least it's clear where it's coming from, now!

Edit: Do they add that much for Tesla? I don't think so. When I ran ABRP for a 450 mile trip with 2 stops on my 3LR, it was ~34 mins total of charging with 2 stops. That would be 30 mins of overhead and 4 minutes of actual charging if it worked like the Lightning.

I wonder if they added it to the Lightning because it's "beta" or if they add it to all CCS cars because it's typically more painful to get charging started, or what?

 

[SteffanG]

This 100%^^

Almost all the new EA chargers ware//will be capable of 350Kw.

I don't know why Ford couldn't/wouldn't future proof the Lightning(to a certain extent) by allowing 800v(350KW?) charging. Porsche is offering it on the Taycan, Hyundai/Kia are offering it on their new EVs(Ioniq 5//ev6).

Maybe its a battery safety issue?(Ford being cautious). I wonder if it is possible to upgrade the Lightning to 800v with OTA, or is that a hardware thing?

Ford effectively has 800V charging on the ER battery as they run 2 400V chargers on parallel instead of one single minus the fact that the input cable needs to be larger. It will be interesting to see if Ford is playing it safe with the charging rates until more testing is done, then allow even faster charging once it is confirmed that it doesn't degrade the battery or cause safety issues. Having to warranty batteries is not something manufactures want to do so on a new product I can see them erring on the side of caution and slowly releasing more range/power out of it at a later date with the OTA.
I wouldnt be surprised if they are capping out the actual max charge of the battery around 80-85% when it reads 100% on the truck to preserve the battery life as well (cell phone batteries degrade so fast as they do not have a buffer built in. Going to only a 80% charge is a huge decrease in the battery cycle count (off the top of my head I think 15-80% of actual capacity is about 0.20cycles, so it would last 5 times longer than going 0-100% all the time).

I am personally planning on getting the platinum as I am using it as personal vehicle and prefer the luxury but will also be using it around my farm every so often as well.

 

[sotek2345]

Ah, good point. I thought about that possibility, too, but it seemed too far off.

If they count the travel time to the charger, the "idle" time should be really small, I would think.

15-69% should take about 34 mins of actual charging (since the rate is almost exactly 150kW all the way from 15-80), so they'd be adding 15 mins to get to 49 mins.

10-49% should take ~24.6 mins, which would mean 15 mins to get to 40 mins.

Hmm... yeah, seems like it's 15 mins. That's stupidly high, IMO, since they're already counting the travel time to the charger. But at least it's clear where it's coming from, now!

Edit: Do they add that much for Tesla? I don't think so. When I ran ABRP for a 450 mile trip with 2 stops on my 3LR, it was ~34 mins total of charging with 2 stops. That would be 30 mins of overhead and 4 minutes of actual charging if it worked like the Lightning.

I wonder if they added it to the Lightning because it's "beta" or if they add it to all CCS cars because it's typically more painful to get charging started, or what?

I just checked the default settings in the app and the wait time is set to 5 minutes. Charging times are still too long though (56 minutes from 25 percent to 79.

I wonder if they are just being conservative and not trusting Ford's numbers

 

[ShirBlackspots]

The short answer is no. You don't need to spend an extra $7000 for the long range battery for the twice a year long trips you make. If you use the electric vehicle options in Google Maps, or use "A better route planner" website or the app, you can easily plan the trip around chargers. There's over 50,000 chargers (level 2 and higher) and more being built.

 

[ShirBlackspots]

Ford effectively has 800V charging on the ER battery as they run 2 400V chargers on parallel instead of one single minus the fact that the input cable needs to be larger. It will be interesting to see if Ford is playing it safe with the charging rates until more testing is done, then allow even faster charging once it is confirmed that it doesn't degrade the battery or cause safety issues. Having to warranty batteries is not something manufactures want to do so on a new product I can see them erring on the side of caution and slowly releasing more range/power out of it at a later date with the OTA.
I wouldnt be surprised if they are capping out the actual max charge of the battery around 80-85% when it reads 100% on the truck to preserve the battery life as well (cell phone batteries degrade so fast as they do not have a buffer built in. Going to only a 80% charge is a huge decrease in the battery cycle count (off the top of my head I think 15-80% of actual capacity is about 0.20cycles, so it would last 5 times longer than going 0-100% all the time).

I am personally planning on getting the platinum as I am using it as personal vehicle and prefer the luxury but will also be using it around my farm every so often as well.

This is a good indication on how well EV batteries last:

https://insideevs.com/news/530836/2013-tesla-models-battery-degradation/amp/

7 years, 165,000 miles and only 11% reduction in battery capacity (A 2013 Model S in Norway)
Plus, some comments to the article, one guy states 174,000 miles and only a 6% reduction in capacity, on their 2015 Model S.

An EV battery is considered "end of life" once 80% of the original capacity is left. (And is ready to either be recycled, or disassembled, and placed into grid storage) - So 330,000 to 522,000 miles of life (depending on how much the pack was DC fast charged) for current battery tech?

 

[Blainestang]

I just checked the default settings in the app and the wait time is set to 5 minutes. Charging times are still too long though (56 minutes from 25 percent to 79.

I wonder if they are just being conservative and not trusting Ford's numbers

Yeah, 25 to 79% should only take 34 mins of *actual* charging for an ER. Yeah, add a few minutes of buffer maybe, but that's not even close.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Now comes the other tough question. If you don't need the ER, do you need the XLT? Or would a Pro work for you? Only real noticeable thing is floorliner and seats.

I'm leaning to a Pro now (I originally was XLT ER), range anxiety isn't concerning to me. My family has a nice minivan for longer trips. In my state I should be able to get and utilize $12,500 in tax credits. That makes my new Pro SR a $27,495 monster. That, I'll keep for 5 years, and sell or trade in for new another EV Truck with newer tech and longer range.

 

[astricklin]

Now comes the other tough question. If you don't need the ER, do you need the XLT? Or would a Pro work for you? Only real noticeable thing is floorliner and seats.

According to the specs that have been released (subject to change), there are a few other items that cannot be added to the Pro.
Copilot 360 Assist. This is equivalent to the base autopilot from Tesla (non-fsd).
Intelligent access - this has sensors/buttons on the door handles that let you lock/unlock the vehicle without taking out the key fob. The Pro may or may not even have remote keyless entry, I don't think it has been said yet.
The max towing with the SR is 7700 ER gets you 10,000

There may be other differences that will be made clear when the build/price tool is made available

 

[Blainestang]

Now comes the other tough question. If you don't need the ER, do you need the XLT? Or would a Pro work for you? Only real noticeable thing is floorliner and seats.

I'm leaning to a Pro now (I originally was XLT ER), range anxiety isn't concerning to me. My family has a nice minivan for longer trips. In my state I should be able to get and utilize $12,500 in tax credits. That makes my new Pro SR a $27,495 monster. That, I'll keep for 5 years, and sell or trade in for new another EV Truck with newer tech and longer range.

If you're comfortable with the SR and the Pro will cost you $27495, an XLT would be almost 50% more money ($13k) for VERY little difference.

To me, the value proposition of going from Pro SR to XLT SR is insanely bad.

For me, it's either Pro SR or XLT ER. XLT SR makes no sense at $13k more than Pro SR, in my opinion (and in Ford's opinion if you compare gas truck prices).

 

[playjack]

Great info guys! I am 65% going with standard battery but concerned of mileage depreciation during winter in Vancouver. We get average 0°C or 32°F and wonder if there's a fixed %loss at this temperature. Although we get occasional -10°C or 14°F, but I will likely only be driving to local ski resorts that are within 50 miles. Worst case is whistler at 96 miles one way and temperature there can be colder at -20°C or -4°F . Looking like standard battery is still usable as long as cold weather will not cut mileage in half!
Related to ER option, could be a stupid question(will ask nevertheless?) , will the extra weight be reducing tire life significantly compared with lighter standard battery. Or it is negligible.

 

[shutterbug]

Now comes the other tough question. If you don't need the ER, do you need the XLT? Or would a Pro work for you? Only real noticeable thing is floorliner and seats.

I'm leaning to a Pro now (I originally was XLT ER), range anxiety isn't concerning to me. My family has a nice minivan for longer trips. In my state I should be able to get and utilize $12,500 in tax credits. That makes my new Pro SR a $27,495 monster. That, I'll keep for 5 years, and sell or trade in for new another EV Truck with newer tech and longer range.

I think you're on the right track with your thinking. I am only unsure about keeping it for 5 years. You should either get Options and keep it for 3 or 4 years and then just turn it in, or plan to keep it for as long as it meets your needs.

 

[playjack]

Now comes the other tough question. If you don't need the ER, do you need the XLT? Or would a Pro work for you? Only real noticeable thing is floorliner and seats.

I'm leaning to a Pro now (I originally was XLT ER), range anxiety isn't concerning to me. My family has a nice minivan for longer trips. In my state I should be able to get and utilize $12,500 in tax credits. That makes my new Pro SR a $27,495 monster. That, I'll keep for 5 years, and sell or trade in for new another EV Truck with newer tech and longer range.

i believe in Canada XLT base price of C$ 68K will include as standard equipment Ford Co-Pilot 360 Assist 2.0, heated front seats, power down tailgate, LED box lighting with zone lighting, rain-sensing wipers, the 20-inch dark carbonized grey aluminum wheels, and Ford’s 9.6-kW Pro Power Onboard system.
unfortunately Pro version will not comes until late next year if ever it will be available. Ford may prioritize releasing trims that they can make more money & these will be XLT & higher trims. however, I need a truck earlier than that.

 

[sotek2345]

Great info guys! I am 65% going with standard battery but concerned of mileage depreciation during winter in Vancouver. We get average 0°C or 32°F and wonder if there's a fixed %loss at this temperature. Although we get occasional -10°C or 14°F, but I will likely only be driving to local ski resorts that are within 50 miles. Worst case is whistler at 96 miles one way and temperature there can be colder at -20°C or -4°F . Looking like standard battery is still usable as long as cold weather will not cut mileage in half!
Related to ER option, could be a stupid question(will ask nevertheless?) , will the extra weight be reducing tire life significantly compared with lighter standard battery. Or it is negligible.

We also have a Mach-e GT on order for my wife, so I am active on those forums as well. It seems that cold weather range reduction is a pretty flat 40% in the real world, so that is what I have been planning on.

 

[Maxx]

One thing to keep in mind is that the truck with standard battery will be ridiculously heavy, with ER, it would be worse. Many disadvantages including added stress on tires.

Any EV you buy now will look like a bad choice three years from now looking at how much better the new EVs are. The lower the price the lower the regret. Go for Pro.

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