Farley says Hybrid and Range-extenders are the answer for trucks (except fleets)

[Altivec]

Agree. And I would like to see Ford survive.

They need to innovate and dream big.

I too want Ford to survive. It's the only reason I waste my time commenting. My Dad always bought Ford trucks and I've always had a Ford Truck (going back 60 years). I would like that tradition to continue. They were on the right path and I even understood the 2 year delay to get some hybrid money during the tough sledding years. But this back pedalling on EV's and focusing your next gen on hybrids, is basically writing your own Obituary. When the market does flip to EV, like I said, January was at 10% market share, it's going to be rapid. GM is already ready for the shift with next gen models in every category. At Ford, 2 years from now, they are going to be offering a "gas" range extender. Are you kidding me.

Sponsored

 

[FloridaMan655321]

Personally I'd rather have a NA gas or an electric, but I guess I like things a bit more simple. If I went to a F150 that wasn't electric it would be the NA 5.0l V8.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

The Ford dealer gave me a 2023 hybrid F-150 loaner with only 15k on the clock. I wasn't impressed with how janky and jerky the driving experience was. With 10 speeds and a an electric motor, there was just to much stumbling and vibration with all of the switching from electric to gas and restarting the engine. It was terrible. I was happy to get my truck back. Has that been anyone else's experience with a hybrid?

 

[Oafy44]

The Ford dealer gave me a 2023 hybrid F-150 loaner with only 15k on the clock. I wasn't impressed with how janky and jerky the driving experience was. With 10 speeds and a an electric motor, there was just to much stumbling and vibration with all of the switching from electric to gas and restarting the engine. It was terrible. I was happy to get my truck back. Has that been anyone else's experience with a hybrid?

yes. My neighbor next door had one. Took it in 3 different times because of what he thought was a transmission problem for the same reasons you listed above. After the 3rd time and ford telling him it was normal he traded it in for a lightning.

he now brags about how smooth the lightning is.

 

[RickLightning]

Farley won't be selling us our next vehicle as a result of this change in strategy. Never going back to a gas powered vehicle of any type. At this rate, our next vehicle will not be a Ford.

 

[Kev12345]

Don’t take away my frunk!

 

[chrislightningnc]

This, 100%. If you could recharge 10-80 in the 15 min span (hello, Hyundai and Lucid), then your overall range is less of a concern. You could keep the same size battery and even when towing just recharge that quickly, it's practically fine. I also do not agree that the issues are "unresolvable" -- especially for the large SUVs. The Lucid Gravity has the cargo space of a Chevy Suburban and can still go 450 miles on a 123 kWh battery. Last I checked there isn't a larger SUV than the Suburban, so getting the same cargo space as that is definitely a "large" SUV. This is a lot of talk to appease short term profits/investors.

Anyone that says any problem is "unresolvable' is incredibly narrow-minded and a fool. Tech progresses so fast and things change. Don't be like the NYT in 1903 saying it would take millions of years for humans to create an airplane. Or Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone saying touchscreens don't work because they have limitations for typing and price....If this is how Ford really thinks then my next car will be 100% not be a Ford (not that Ford or anyone cares about what I do).

Ford has steady missed the product need outside of F150, a viable electric explorer would sell easily, additionally, charging infrastructure is what holds the EV market back, but, no one is investing in it... Farley is supposed to be a "car guy" but, there hasn't been a single interesting development from Ford under his watch, no improvements on EV since launch of lightning and mache. Mach e should have been either an SUV like people buy or a sports car, merger of the two is silly. I love my lightning, but, the efficiency is attrocious and the computers are terribly frustrating.

 

[flypony53]

If he thinks that, then Ford will miss where the puck will be again. Hybrids are needless, complex and are for people that are scared to get EV's. The US is far behind but Jan 2025 EV sales have hit a record 10%. By the time the T3 is out, it will probably closer to 25%. This will increase charging infrastructure so that it will be at every corner. Charging speeds have also jumped dramatically in newer Chinese models. That's what they should be concentrating on and not trying to accommodate people sitting on the fence.

I will never buy a hybrid/gas range extender again. If Ford does not have an EV truck when I am ready to move on from my Lightning, they will have lost my sale for sure.

1000000% Agree here. As I tell people, Hybrids and especially Plug-in Hybrids are the worst of both worlds. The gains in efficiencies are minimal, yet you have all of the downsides of both platforms with ICE emissions, Oil changes, mechanical complexities, etc.

I get all of the concerns with highway and towing range. I truly think the EPA should at a minimum create the range requirement for both as ICE vehicles do. With highway range, I had a guy ask me the other day, how does the truck do on road trips? Truthfully, I told him they are great. Now that the Tesla network is open, I have had zero issues. I also asked him how many actual road trips he takes a year. The majority of folks take maybe 2-3 trips of 2-300 miles each. In my experience, maybe coming with age, I like to stop every few hours anyway to use the facilities and stretch my legs.

For towing range, I still do not have an answer other than what GM has done to add giant batteries.

 

[jefrank]

but don’t worry. Wirh GM pumping out 450 plus range with their trucks / telsa being Tesla - ford will have to adapt and will.- shareholders aren’t going to take a 0% gain in this stock for the past 5 years much longer.

90% of the voting power is concentrated in the Ford family's hands. They care more about dividends than stock price appreciation from what I can tell.

 

[luebri]

Farley won't be selling us our next vehicle as a result of this change in strategy. Never going back to a gas powered vehicle of any type. At this rate, our next vehicle will not be a Ford.

I would imagine/hope a Range Extender would just be an option, similar to how Scout is approaching it. If you want simple BEV buy the the BEV, if you want EREV, buy that. Same truck, 2 versions. That said unless Ford wows me, I think Scout is the direction I'm going next. Rivian Software, Full size truck, Bench seat, Volkswagen group $$$ behind it. Looks promising to me.

Don’t take away my frunk!

Hopefully they can implement it like Scout plans to which appears to be under truck bed. Unfortunately this may mean no spare tire, which is a whole other problem.

 

[Lilburnedbear]

The Ford dealer gave me a 2023 hybrid F-150 loaner with only 15k on the clock. I wasn't impressed with how janky and jerky the driving experience was. With 10 speeds and a an electric motor, there was just to much stumbling and vibration with all of the switching from electric to gas and restarting the engine. It was terrible. I was happy to get my truck back. Has that been anyone else's experience with a hybrid?

Reading all of these odes to EV I have to tell you that I love my F150 hybrid. Yes the the handoff between electric and gas propulsion is occasionally a bit clunky under load but where I drive in the Pacific Northwest frankly it’s the best option for me. I regularly have 5-10 hours of driving to do and there just isn’t enough energy infrastructure to compete with a 5-min gas up most of the places I go.

I get the whole discussion of transmission smoothness, something that frankly has never been great on any ice vehicle I’ve owned with an automatic tranny, particularly from Ford, but the affection I have for my truck is multifaceted.

I powered my furnace for a whole week last year for half a tank of gas during an ice storm that chased half the folks out of my neighborhood when their houses went down to <30 degrees. Easily paid for itself in the lack of water damage from frozen pipes that so many suffered. Listening to the engine cut on and off at 2am to charge the battery with ice pelting our house in the darkened street was pure relief. Some may respond about bi-directional charging, but nobody has that for real outside of Japan. My friend works for Tesla and has all the kit - cyber truck/Tesla solar and power wall. After 2 days with no power no more juice and has been repairing water damage and fighting insurance claims all year.

In short EV adoption may be the future but it’s not here yet. And until the Battery tech is PROVEN and infrastructure is in, it is most folks won’t/can’t and frankly shouldn’t put all their eggs in the one basket. At least outside of major metro areas. FWIW my other car is a MachE. I appreciate what BEVs do, just realistic.

 

[RickLightning]

The Ford dealer gave me a 2023 hybrid F-150 loaner with only 15k on the clock. I wasn't impressed with how janky and jerky the driving experience was. With 10 speeds and a an electric motor, there was just to much stumbling and vibration with all of the switching from electric to gas and restarting the engine. It was terrible. I was happy to get my truck back. Has that been anyone else's experience with a hybrid?

We owned a Fusion Hybrid for 7 years, then a Fusion PHEV for 3 years. Both screamed when you were on the highway ramp coming up to speed. Both hesitated when you punched it, and had slow acceleration.

When we test drove the Mach-E in 2021, I loved it. When I drove the Lightning, and discovered it was faster than the Mach-E, that did it for me. I use BlueCruise (not that it's an EV thing) on all my trips and love handsfree.

I can't imagine ever going back to gas.

 

[Zprime29]

Chinese car companies TODAY are buying batteries near $5000 per 100kWh and it's coming down 10% to 20% per year. Gen2/3 batteries will be 2x to 3x the current energy density, perhaps some version of solid-state, with more charge cycles and higher charge rates.

Chinese car companies TODAY have demonstrated cars that charge at 400kW+, 10% to 80% in like 9 minutes! The Chinese make mediocre EVs that cost $13K and very good EVs that cost $30K. American and German cars are dead in China (except for very high end luxury).

Let's be fair and also point out that China spends significantly more money subsidizing their EV and battery sector than basically the rest of the world combined. It also looks like that strategy will pay off for them, since no one else is willing to do the same.

" Beginning in 2001, Beijing made electric vehicles (EVs) and their batteries a priority in its Five Year Plan, motivated by its realization that China would struggle to catch up to the United States and Japan when it came to innovation in internal combustion engine technology. By the end of the 2000s, the Chinese government was providing major support for the firms making EV batteries, including tax breaks, cheap land, and public procurement. Researchers at the Center for Strategic and International Studies calculated that Chinese government support for the battery and EV sector totaled $230 billion from 2009 to 2023. "
https://carnegieendowment.org/resea...-next-generation-battery-technologies?lang=en

All that said, I'm 100% in on EV's but I don't mind the trade offs can can deal with the unknown for road trips. My wife can't deal with it and I don't want her to have to deal with it. An EREV is at least a step in the right direction. Get people hooked on an all EV power train. It's an easier sell and provides a chance for at large to better understand what EV living is all about. It's a stop gap until infrastructure matures. I think of hybrids like children learning to ride a bike with training wheels. Once they learn balance, the training wheels get in the way and they ask for them to come off.

Due to limited choices for 7 seaters, we ended up going with a traditional plug in. We got the 10 year warranty so maintenance won't be horrendous. Gives plenty of time for NACS to become more of the norm and for new options and tech to come around and support EV's better.

 

[Zprime29]

We owned a Fusion Hybrid for 7 years, then a Fusion PHEV for 3 years. Both screamed when you were on the highway ramp coming up to speed. Both hesitated when you punched it, and had slow acceleration.

Our XC90 is no slouch, there are good option available. They aren't on the same level as a good EV, but they don't feel like they are lacking for someone accustomed to a gas car.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

My wife's 23 Honda crv hybrid left her stranded yesterday in the rain. Car lit up about a brake issue and wouldn't start.
I go there with my Lightning and start to check it out. Thinking a bad key fob first.. then go and grab my meter. Starting lvb shows 7.15 volts.
Still enough to sort of light up the dash, but not kick in the relays to provide hvb to charge the lvb.
I head home , but instead stop at oriely's 5 miutes away to pick up some jumper cables.
Got the car started with my Lightning. This morning her Honda started just fine.
So a 2 year old hybrid either has a dead lvb or something more serious..but was saved by a 5 month old lightning..
Waiting for today's call to come and bail her out. Even though I Showed her how to jump start her car.

All electric for the win.

Rick

Sponsored