Ford Mobile Power Cord tripping 50am breaker in cold weather

[mstriker513]

I am having problems with my Ford Mobile Power Cord (which supposedly uses 30amps) tripping a 240v/50 amp breaker in my home breaker box when I charge the truck outside when the temperature is below about 30 degrees. I actually have 2 different 240v outlets that are on seperate 50 amp breakers inside my garage and have the same problem with both outlets/breakers when the truck is cold (below about 30 degrees). Unfortunately, most of the time my Lightning sits outdoors just outside the garage, and is subject to the weather. I got the truck in June, and didn't have any issues charging with either outlet/breaker until November when the temeratures dropped. Now I frequently trip the breakers, and it seems to related to the colder days. If I bring the truck into the garage and charge inside the garage (where it typically stays above 40 degrees even on cold days), I don't have this issue.

Sponsored

 

[Ford Motor Company]

I am having problems with my Ford Mobile Power Cord (which supposedly uses 30amps) tripping a 240v/50 amp breaker in my home breaker box when I charge the truck outside when the temperature is below about 30 degrees. I actually have 2 different 240v outlets that are on seperate 50 amp breakers inside my garage and have the same problem with both outlets/breakers when the truck is cold (below about 30 degrees). Unfortunately, most of the time my Lightning sits outdoors just outside the garage, and is subject to the weather. I got the truck in June, and didn't have any issues charging with either outlet/breaker until November when the temeratures dropped. Now I frequently trip the breakers, and it seems to related to the colder days. If I bring the truck into the garage and charge inside the garage (where it typically stays above 40 degrees even on cold days), I don't have this issue.

Hi there, I'd be happy to look into your Lightning concerns on my end. Will you send us a message with your VIN and dealership info? I can look into things on my end.

 

[ericpullen]

I'm no electrician, but you should probably verify the size of the wires from the panel to the outlet first. I can tell you that there is a difference between long-term sustained power draw versus a quick (less than an hour) draw of power as you would see with something like a oven or a dryer. Many times, the wires are not sized appropriately for type of wire and sustained load. A consult with an electrician may be in order to figure it out.

 

[Maquis]

While the mobile charger is prone to many failures, this is the first I‘ve heard of this situation. If other L2 chargers work as expected, your charger needs to be replaced under warranty.

 

[mstriker513]

Hi there, I'd be happy to look into your Lightning concerns on my end. Will you send us a message with your VIN and dealership info? I can look into things on my end.

Hi - My VIN is 1FT6W1EV7NWG03907, and my dealership is Woody Sander Ford located in Cincinnati Ohio

 

[Karlos]

Had no issues with mine. Truck outside in 28dF temps. 50 Amp circuit with #6 wire, no tripping or heating issues that I've seen with several charges of 12+ hours. Check CB & receptacle with heat gun, could just be poor connections or too small wire (#8).

 

[greenne]

I would have an electrician check your breaker and be sure the wire connections are tight.

My 48A chargepoint EVSE suddenly started tripping the breaker. It was working fine the day before. A check of the breaker revealed the connections were not clamped tight and/or came loose over time.

I was told loose connection is a common problem on EVSE due to the high and constant current draw.

Electrcian can also check the load to make sure the charger is drawing what it should draw.

 

[mstriker513]

This is an update of my original post from 2/1/2023 regarding problems with charging my truck with the Ford Mobile Power Cord when the truck is cold (below about 30 degrees), because I continue to have the same problem.....

I did take my truck back to the dealer in February 2023 and they didn’t have the same problem when charging my truck on their charger when the truck was cold (although I know nothing about what type of circut breaker their charger is connected to). They did loan me a brand new Ford Mobile Power Cord and when I tried charging at my house with that charger, I had the same results with the breakers tripping if the truck was about 30 degrees or colder. At that point the dealer decided the problem had to be in the circuits at my house. By the time all that happened, it was mid to late March 2023 and the weather where I lived had gotten warmer, and I didn’t have issues charging until the weather got colder a couple of months ago. The last couple of months every time I try to charge the truck if it is below 30 degrees my 50 amp GFCI breakers will trip. If I bring my truck into the garage (where the temperature is in the 40’s) and let the truck warm up a couple hours, it will charge fine without tripping the breakers (I have 2 separate 240v circuits each with their own separate 50 amp GFCI breaker, and the results are the same for either breaker). I have measured the amperage of the 2 hot legs of the breaker during charging with a clamp on amp meter, and if the truck is 30 degrees or less, each leg measures about 32 amps and then trips the breaker. If the truck is warmer (40 or more degrees) the amperage on the hot legs measures about 28 to 29 amps depending on the temperature with both legs reading basically the same amperage.

I called the electrician (whose card says he is licensed) who originally installed these 2 circuits and he looked over the circuits on a cold day below 30 degrees, and measured the current at 32amps on each leg as the breaker tripped. He claimed that since each leg was reading 32 amps, you add those together (32+32=64) and the breaker is seeing 64 volts which was tripping it since it is a 50 amp breaker. I am NOT an electrician, but I am fairly certain that is NOT correct, and you don’t add the 2 legs together since they are out of phase. I am not sure if he actually believes what he was telling me or if he told me that because he could not come up with a better story and thought I would not know any different. His first suggestion was to change the breaker to a 60 amp breaker, and when and I pointed out that if he was correct that the charger was pulling 64 volts, it should also trip a 60 amp breaker, said “well there is some wiggle room, and the 60 amp breaker probably wouldn’t trip”. His 2nd suggestion was to install a non GFCI 50 amp breaker. Since Ford specifically says the charger needs a 50amp GFCI breaker, I am reluctant to follow either of his 2 suggestions. I am concerned that if I deviated from Ford’s required 50amp GFCI recommendation, and anything bad happened to the truck, my house or a person while charging, it would end up my problem for deviating from Ford’s recommendation.

So, I called a 2nd electrician, who was here this morning on a day below 30 degrees, and like usual, the breaker tripped when the truck started charging. He spent a couple hours and seemed very thorough and checked over both circuits and could not find any problems that were obviously causing the breakers to trip. He used a thermal camera to check for any overheating conditions and also checked voltages on both legs to check for in balance. He also went and bought a brand new 50amp GFCI breaker and installed it, and that breaker also tripped. While he told me he was going to do some more research, he said at this point he does not know why the charger pulling 32 amps would trip 3 different 50 amp breakers. He is going to do some more research, but if he can’t find something else to check, he is going to quote me a price to tear out the entire circuit (sub panel box, breaker, wires, outlet, basically everything) and start from scratch installing a new circuit. That sounds expensive, particularly when there isn’t anything obvious wrong with the existing circuits or breakers, and there is not guarantee a new circuit will fix the issue since the cause is not known yet.

So at this point, both of my the 50amp circuits have been looked at by 2 licensed electricians, and I am getting the same results (breakers trip when the truck is 30 degrees or colder) and now 3 separate breakers have been tried with the same results. I have tried calling Ford multiple times, but all they say is call an electrician, and make sure you use a 50amp GFCI breaker. The Ford people I am talking to are "customer support" type people, and not anyone with technical knowledge. They tell me there are charging technical people, but that those people are not "Customer facing" , and therefore they can't let me talk to them. I have spent a TON of time trying to trouble shoot this myself and research potential causes/fixes.

Is there some additional circuit in the battery, the truck or the charger that gets energized when the temperature of the truck is near 30 degrees (like a heating circuit to condition the battery)?

I am not sure what my next move should be....

 

[Maquis]

The breaker should have an indicator to tell whether it tripped due to GFCI or overcurrent. Since you’re measuring 32A, it’s likely tripping on GF. If so, it likely means there is something very strange going on in your truck that causes the GF when it gets cold. It going to take a very astute troubleshooter to track this down.

 

[Jseis]

https://www.seahurst.com/nema-14-50...ctric Vehicle Supply,and will be faulty trips.

I’ve a Nema 14-50 on a short run of 6 AWG copper to a 50 amp breaker (no GFCI) connecting the Charge Point Home Flex which idles along at 32 amps. When it gets permanently located, it’ll be direct wired.

 

[TaxmanHog]

What are the chances that two FMC's are both defective??????

Do you have any contacts in the local community also owning a Lightning who could lend you their FMC for further testing?

The battery warming PTC does draw substantial energy, but most folks are not experiencing what you are seeing.

The warming phase only lasts 5 to 15 minutes and then tapers off quickly to around 4000 watts.

 

[The Weatherman]

The breaker should have an indicator to tell whether it tripped due to GFCI or overcurrent. Since you’re measuring 32A, it’s likely tripping on GF. If so, it likely means there is something very strange going on in your truck that causes the GF when it gets cold. It going to take a very astute troubleshooter to track this down.

Since it seems to be temp related, wonder if it has something to do with the battery heating circuit in the truck?

 

[Maquis]

Since it seems to be temp related, wonder if it has something to do with the battery heating circuit in the truck?

I thought about that, but it should be totally powered by the battery. The only thing that is powered by (connected to) the AC input is the onboard charger.

 

[ddimit]

You or a electrican needs to put an Amp clamp meter on one of the circuit wires to see what the draw is. I'm surprised no one has done it before recommending replacing your panels. That guy should not be an electrican if he doesn't know basic troubleshooting an overcurrent or GFCI condition.

 

[PreservedSwine]

I’m fairly certain the electrician ran a FLA test.
However, it’s less likely he ran a current leakage test.
You'll need a capable meter (and the knowledge to set it and use it properly for this specific test) as well as break the ground for test point during testing (usually done at the panel). Be aware there is no ground during this test. A real ground fault is dangerous, and could manifest during testing as the line is not grounded during testing. This requires caution and care during testing.

Typically, the threshold at which current leakage will trip a GFCI is 5ma. Anything over 0.5ma on a typical appliance is an indication of a problem.

For troubleshooting purposes, I’d run a new, temporary line with a new breaker, and see if the problem persists. Visually check the panel itself where the breaker attaches for damage.

Sponsored