If a Tesla can recognize all versions of supercharger, why can’t Lightning be programmed to do the same?

[speedy123]

Simplistic question, I know, and yes, I have used the search button on the forum. But at a very simple level, if a Tesla can differentiate between the different types of superchargers, and adapt to different protocol or handshake to recognize and accept a charge from them, Then, what is the limiting step for the lightning to be able to do the same? I would love access to all or more superchargers if I buy a Ford EV (virtually all the ones around me are level 2 and not accessible. )
Engineers be nice to me, I studied biochemistry and don’t remember much of that either.

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[speedy123]

I mean V2 and not level2

 

[sotek2345]

Honest answer, Tesla doesn't want to give (and/or Ford won't pay for) access to their proprietary protocol.

 

[COrocket]

Newer Superchargers have hardware that enables CCS compatible communication with vehicles, which is what the Lightning uses.

The current Lightning either doesn’t have the hardware to communicate with legacy proprietary Superchargers, or the software implementation would be too complicated for Ford to implement in a timely/cost efficient manner. Ford struggles with vehicle software much more than Tesla does.

Either way I haven’t heard of Fords getting opened up to older chargers. The good news is as the chargers get upgrades and new pedestals, they’ll be CCS compatible. The older ones won’t last forever.

 

[hturnerfamily]

there are more Superchargers open to FORD, than not, so the idea is to allow Ford and other EVs to use superchargers that are 'less' used by Tesla's own owners... makes sense, too, as it gives us MORE options/spaces open to charge there.

I think the annoyance arrives for the simple fact that ALL Superchargers are called, well, Superchargers - if Tesla decides to RENAME all the 'Tesla Only' locations to something different, such as 'Tesla ONLY Fast Charger'.... then you'd be less inclined to be annoyed.

Take the mindset that, software or not, certain chargers can be used, and some can't.
If you are a Nissan LEAF owner, well, now you REALLY have a big BEEF! They can ONLY use CHadeMO chargers!

 

[cwstnsko]

Simplistic question, I know, and yes, I have used the search button on the forum. But at a very simple level, if a Tesla can differentiate between the different types of superchargers, and adapt to different protocol or handshake to recognize and accept a charge from them, Then, what is the limiting step for the lightning to be able to do the same? I would love access to all or more superchargers if I buy a Ford EV (virtually all the ones around me are level 2 and not accessible. )
Engineers be nice to me, I studied biochemistry and don’t remember much of that either.

Tesla only supports NACS at selected sites (about 60% of supercharger sites)
Telsas charging at superchargers do not use NACS, they use Telsa’s proprietary CAN based communication. Ford is supporting NACS (via the adapter at this time.) Telsa is, by design, keeping 40% of their network private by configuring those site to not support NACS. If you watch the new supercharger rollouts, even with brand new hardware that can support NACS, Tesla still configures 40% of site to not support NACS.

The bottom line is that Ford cannot use them because Tesla does not want Ford to be able to use them. They are keeping 40% of the network private on purpose, perhaps to retain a competitive advantage.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Honest answer, Tesla doesn't want to give (and/or Ford won't pay for) access to their proprietary protocol.

This has to do with the CCS communications protocol that not all Tesla Superchargers have, not a pissing match over technology or to make money off of it (well, at least directly). In fact, Tesla has made their patents open-source and free to everyone.

https://www.vennershipley.com/insig...-patent-philosophy-mean-they-are-free-to-use/

They did this over 10 years ago.

What Tesla, well really Elon, wanted was to win. And win he did. His charging technology is now the North American Charging Standard and there's a good shot it will become the preferred global standard.

So, why did Elon do this?

A) Elon is an egotistical POS and being the winner at anything is more important to him than money. (And that's probably because he has more money than he could ever spend in a dozen lifetimes)

B) Elon truly does want to to see the world's movement towards clean energy and knows normalization of standards will make things more easily accessible and less expensive in the long run.

C) Elon wants to be remembered by future generations as the father of these new technologies the same way we think of Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, and Nicola Tesla...again because he's an egotistical POS. He will likely go down in history as he desires even though he didn't invent a single one of these technologies, but he is the cult of personality in front of them and his name will forever be tied to them.

D) Elon's companies, Tesla and Solar City, will profit greatly from the general public's adoption of these technologies and it will allow him the latitude to pursue other dreams with SpaceX, Boring, NeuraLink, and xAI where he again hopes to go down in history as THE great inventor of the future.

E) Elon laughs his ass of in his own smug POS way knowing that 100+ year old car companies are beholden upon him to enable adoption of their EV products. Every time a non-Tesla vehicle driver is charging at one of his supercharger locations, they'll be staring at the Tesla logo all around them while getting an up-close and personal look at Tesla vehicles. Tesla doesn't do traditional marketing, but they are masters of subtle marketing. I can't think of better marketing than making your competitors speak your company's name and use your technologies & services to make their products work. Hell, every business that hosts a Tesla supercharger has to display the Tesla name and logo all over their site.

F) Elon actually IS making a profit off of selling the electricity at his supercharger locations.

He got this and a whole lot more for simply giving his patents away for free.

 

[jamelski]

@PrimeRisk why I stay away from them . I’ll go out of my way, wait , or pay more ect vice use Tesla.

 

[PrimeRisk]

@PrimeRisk why I stay away from them . I’ll go out of my way, wait , or pay more ect vice use Tesla.

The problem with that is that the Tesla superchargers always work. I own Teslas also and I've never had a problem charging away from home, not once. The absolute worst thing about owning a Lightning is dealing with Electrify America chargers.

 

[tls]

Honest answer, Tesla doesn't want to give (and/or Ford won't pay for) access to their proprietary protocol.

Not the case. There are hardware differences. CCS communication uses Ethernet over the power lines. Older Superchargers do not have the hardware to do this (and consequently don't have software that can speak CCS protocol, since that would be silly). Newer Superchargers have the Tesla ("NACS") connector, but speak CCS protocol so they can work with non-Tesla cars.

 

[sotek2345]

Not the case. There are hardware differences. CCS communication uses Ethernet over the power lines. Older Superchargers do not have the hardware to do this (and consequently don't have software that can speak CCS protocol, since that would be silly). Newer Superchargers have the Tesla ("NACS") connector, but speak CCS protocol so they can work with non-Tesla cars.

Agreed, but all of that could be solved with some money (software and hardware in the truck) but none of it is an unsolvable technical issue.

 

[jamelski]

The problem with that is that the Tesla superchargers always work. I own Teslas also and I've never had a problem charging away from home, not once. The absolute worst thing about owning a Lightning is dealing with Electrify America chargers.

I’m not saying they don’t work. I’m just saying I won’t give a penny to that company. I’m not even turned off at Elon. Could care less about him.

my issue is Tesla fans boys and how majority of the customers have a superiority complex.

I still remember walking into a Tesla store in 2014 with my wife and kids to buy a Tesla, they were the only electric car at the time in eugene Oregon and since I was wearing pajamas the sale person thought I could not afford a Tesla. They lost me that day. F Tesla

I’ll go get a snickers now

 

[PrimeRisk]

Agreed, but all of that could be solved with some money (software and hardware in the truck) but none of it is an unsolvable technical issue.

Yes, all of this is solvable, though I think it makes more sense to upgrade the older Tesla Superchargers as there are many more CSS vehicles on the road vs chargers that don't "talk" CSS. It will take time, but I'd bet that Tesla will be motivated to upgrade their oldest superchargers to V3 or V4 superchargers and then they'll be able to talk CSS and solve it.

 

[tls]

To my knowledge, nobody but Tesla has ever successfully implemented the original Supercharger protocol. I have no idea whether it's even documented, beyond Tesla's source code. Even for their own Chademo adapter, they basically taught the cars to speak a thinly encapsulated variant or Chademo rather than building an adapter that did protocol translation.

The one attempt I know of by a 3rd party to implement Tesla protocol (in an alternate firmware for some early Korean CCS adapters that normally emulated Tesla's Chademo adapter and were limited to 50kW) actually damaged cars. No thank you! I like the current approach of putting CCS support in the Superchargers just fine

 

[speedy123]

I know for some pre-2021 Teslas to use other brand CCS chargers, some needed a hardware upgrade for compatibility. Doesn’t seem crazy that they could reverse engineer an adaptor to make it work backwards. But wishful thinking and clearly more complicated than that

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