Powertrain Malfunction/ Reduced Power

[Phineas Magliozzi]

Update: Beware of @Ford BEV Hotline -

Yesterday I traded in one rental car for another because I need a truck to go on vacation with. The new rental reservation was for a F-150 ICE vehicle and I was lucky to get it, rental trucks - cars of any kind actually - are not easy to come by in my town even though there are Enterprise, Hertz, and Budget franchises here. Paid the rental car agency off for the prior rental(+/- $2,300) and got the new vehicle from another agency, but when I went to pick it up it was a Dodge, not an F-150. Rental agency pointed to the language that says "or similar" in my reservation and asked if I still wanted it. Facing the prospect of cancelling my vacation I rented it myself, again, and sent the receipt for the prior rental to the BEV team member assigned to my case, informing them of the swap and confirming that they would cover my new rental. Received an email back this morning from the BEV team member (evidently on their day off ?), saying they would not cover the rental:

"It has to be a Ford rental to be reimbursed. Any model, from any rental agency."

This despite an email from the same team member 6 weeks ago saying:

One would like to give @Ford the benefit of the doubt, that this is all just sloppy administration of a difficult situation, but now I'm out of pocket $2,300 and unsure If I should take my newly rented Dodge truck on vacation starting Monday. Rental agency not open on the weekend, it's a touristy area, that came as a bit of a surprise this morning too.

I'm unsure where/when this is going to end. I've been without my vehicle for almost 7 weeks now, and don't know when I'll see it again, nor if If I can trust it. Was thinking about Lemon law and just getting a new Lighting, now I'm thinking I can't trust @Ford at all and may have to do something else. Did I mention that I sold my 2007 4Runner w/ 372,000 miles on it after I bought the LIghting? Would like a Mulligan on that transaction now. That damn thing is probably still running like a charm, somewhere.

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[The Weatherman]

So we’re no Ford vehicles available at the agency or just no F-250’s?

Seems like you have it writing that they will cover you, if no Fords where available.

 

[Avocadodude]

If folks would be so kind, please provide: ***Especially - Build date and mileage at battery module replacement occurance?*** [See the spreadsheet in my signature that I am trying to track these problems on.]
@smaster553 @innerpeaz @jd350b @BabZBro @RacerX98 @TomZ @JetsonLightning @IdahoLightning @BoostedKWs @Flash @frautumn @awilli1010 @Helium @Blaster @Woodsm44 @Quarter2heavy @DanielM92563 @Speeddemon @bdivell @Samzy @igriffin @HJP @granfaloon @drdirk @sstevetx @haresource2 @Garrett @mr2urbo004 @Djayjay @Robilium

Very nice summary sheet. In repair again for round two, module 5 this time. I’ll update tonight from a larger screen.

 

[Phineas Magliozzi]

So we’re no Ford vehicles available at the agency or just no F-250’s?

Seems like you have it writing that they will cover you, if no Fords where available.

Initially the dealer set up a rental, because they set it up they were paying for it and it had to be a Ford, fine. They put me in a ICE Mustang convertible. I think the entire interior of that thing could fit in the backseat of my Lightning. No other Ford products were available at the three agencies at that time. Once the initial diagnosis came in a couple of days later, and it was clear that this was going to take a while, I tried getting another, human-sized vehicle but no other Ford products were available. That is when the email above transpired and I got clearance, or so I thought, to get another manufacturer's vehicle. No trucks of any kind were available so I got a small SUV-thing. Six weeks go by and I'm heading out on vacation, the third promise of repair had just fallen through, so I reserved the F-150 with the dealer's PO. I wanted to stay out of the payment food chain if possible. Then it all went South as previously described. I'll call @Ford in the morning, see if I can get them to honor their previous commitment, if they don't then I'm not sure what I'll do. Given the circumstances, I don't think I'll continue the rental on the Dodge, what if the Lightning fandango goes on for another month? Not inconceivable at this point, I'm already at serious risk for a couple of $k, don't want to be at risk for any more.

 

[Flash]

Took delivery 10/2/23 with 34 miles. Malfunction showed on 10/3/23 with 49 miles. Dropped off to dealership on 10/3/23 still waiting on diagnosis.

Update 2: The service tech cleared all the codes and updated all modules on the truck and gave it back on 10/5/23. Immediately the next day I got a service required soon message with only 50% power. I took the truck back in on 10/6/23 and the tech was finally able to diagnose it today 10/9/23. This time he found a fault in battery module 2 and now the whole battery pack will need to be dropped to replace that module 2. He mentioned that there might be an issue getting the battery module in because of some parts shortage. This truck still has less than 100 miles and I just want to be able to drive it already. I mentioned how I would like the BECM replaced as well, so that I don't have to deal with it later, but the service tech told me that it not part of the CSB and I would either have to wait for it to fail or pay out of pocket for a new BECM... I can't believe Ford shipped trucks with faulty parts and refuse to fix them until it fails, this has to be illegal somehow. It's been in the shop longer than it's been in my driveway...

 

[Avocadodude]

Update 2: The service tech cleared all the codes and updated all modules on the truck and gave it back on 10/5/23. Immediately the next day I got a service required soon message with only 50% power. I took the truck back in on 10/6/23 and the tech was finally able to diagnose it today 10/9/23. This time he found a fault in battery module 2 and now the whole battery pack will need to be dropped to replace that module 2. He mentioned that there might be an issue getting the battery module in because of some parts shortage. This truck still has less than 100 miles and I just want to be able to drive it already. I mentioned how I would like the BECM replaced as well, so that I don't have to deal with it later, but the service tech told me that it not part of the CSB and I would either have to wait for it to fail or pay out of pocket for a new BECM... I can't believe Ford shipped trucks with faulty parts and refuse to fix them until it fails, this has to be illegal somehow. It's been in the shop longer than it's been in my driveway...

While the battery pack being modular and serviceable will someday maybe be a good thing (out of warranty servicability), right now I feel like Ford should be sending out full batteries, balanced and ready to go. nYour story is totally discouraging. I at least had 8k miles before first failure. I couldn't imaging less that 100. I hope you get it resolved quickly.

 

[GDN]

Update 2: The service tech cleared all the codes and updated all modules on the truck and gave it back on 10/5/23. Immediately the next day I got a service required soon message with only 50% power. I took the truck back in on 10/6/23 and the tech was finally able to diagnose it today 10/9/23. This time he found a fault in battery module 2 and now the whole battery pack will need to be dropped to replace that module 2. He mentioned that there might be an issue getting the battery module in because of some parts shortage. This truck still has less than 100 miles and I just want to be able to drive it already. I mentioned how I would like the BECM replaced as well, so that I don't have to deal with it later, but the service tech told me that it not part of the CSB and I would either have to wait for it to fail or pay out of pocket for a new BECM... I can't believe Ford shipped trucks with faulty parts and refuse to fix them until it fails, this has to be illegal somehow. It's been in the shop longer than it's been in my driveway...

Very sorry to see this, I know it is frustrating. My truck spent 3 weeks in the shop early on for an AC issue.

I may have missed something big here, but why do you suspect the BECM is bad? Because the cells have different voltages? Do we know that is a fault of the BECM? indeed they're updating the BECM software to help find the faults, but I don't think anyone has suspected or noted the BECM is bad, maybe I've missed that.

I believed it to be a physical problem with the cell or a pouch in the cell that is not responding as it should to charging or discharging causing the differences between cells.

 

[thrawn2k2]

Reading this thread is not encouraging. :|

Received both errors today with 11k miles. Power dropped to 26% then 20%. Towed to dealer. I was lucky to limp home.

Really bad taste in my mouth since I just completed a long 1000 mile road trip…. What if I would have been stranded…..

My state (FL) allows Lemon Law at 15 days out of service, as I understand it. I’m not sure why I wouldn’t initiate that given the potential repeat problems I'm reading?

 

[biers]

Reading this thread is not encouraging. :|

Received both errors today with 11k miles. Power dropped to 26% then 20%. Towed to dealer. I was lucky to limp home.

Really bad taste in my mouth since I just completed a long 1000 mile road trip…. What if I would have been stranded…..

My state (FL) allows Lemon Law at 15 days out of service, as I understand it. I’m not sure why I wouldn’t initiate that given the potential repeat problems I'm reading?

I absolutely would start the lemon process soon as you’re eligible

 

[Flash]

Very sorry to see this, I know it is frustrating. My truck spent 3 weeks in the shop early on for an AC issue.

I may have missed something big here, but why do you suspect the BECM is bad? Because the cells have different voltages? Do we know that is a fault of the BECM? indeed they're updating the BECM software to help find the faults, but I don't think anyone has suspected or noted the BECM is bad, maybe I've missed that.

I believed it to be a physical problem with the cell or a pouch in the cell that is not responding as it should to charging or discharging causing the differences between cells.

You are probably right and I think it's just a bad battery module. But coming from a Mach E, this same error was seen with the powertrain malfunction notification so that's why I thought maybe the BECM could be problematic as well.

 

[GoodSam]

Reminder: Anyone with a build January 20-26, see TSB 23S15 Safety Recall, HV battery replacement...only 18 vehicles, but "battery cell manufacturing defect which occurred over a four-week period"? I would think four weeks of production would be suspect instead of one. Posting this here as my search on the forum for 23S15 did not show any threads. There is a thread or two on the battery fire that happened in a Ford storage lot.
Maybe this one was first to post the article about the fire: lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue

https://www.tsbsearch.com/Ford/23S15
"...program involves 18 delivered U.S. vehicles.
REASON FOR THIS SAFETY RECALL
Ford is recalling certain F-150 Battery Electric Vehicles due to a battery cell manufacturing defect
which occurred over a four-week period starting at the end of last year. For vehicles built with these
cells, the vehicle could experience a short in the High Voltage Battery at a high state of charge that
could result in a vehicle fire.
SERVICE ACTION
Before demonstrating or delivering any new in-stock vehicles involved in this recall, dealers are to
replace the High Voltage Battery. This service must be performed on all affected vehicles at no
charge to the vehicle owner.
OWNER NOTIFICATION MAILING SCHEDULE
Owner letters are expected to be mailed the week of March 27, 2023. Dealers should repair any
affected vehicles that arrive at their dealerships, whether or not the customer has received a letter."

 

[RonB]

This same thing happened to me today. Powertrain malfunction! 3 % power available. I had a notice a few days ago for the CSP 23b57, not sure if this is connected.

 

[sstevetx]

If you have a module replaced, keep an eye on your coolant level. I noticed my reservoir was empty a day after I picked it up from repair. It might have been that way when I picked it up, but I didn't think to check. I filled it between min & max lines and after the next drive it went down. Did this routine a few times before it stabilized. I thought there was a leak at first, but there was no puddle under the truck. I now suspect the service dept didn't put enough in. I plan on asking for reimbursement for the coolant which is $15 from Ford. I had bought some previously because my level was slightly below minimum before the module replacement. It is MotorCraft brand and the exact model is in your manual, so get the right one.

 

[Flash]

Update 2: The service tech cleared all the codes and updated all modules on the truck and gave it back on 10/5/23. Immediately the next day I got a service required soon message with only 50% power. I took the truck back in on 10/6/23 and the tech was finally able to diagnose it today 10/9/23. This time he found a fault in battery module 2 and now the whole battery pack will need to be dropped to replace that module 2. He mentioned that there might be an issue getting the battery module in because of some parts shortage. This truck still has less than 100 miles and I just want to be able to drive it already. I mentioned how I would like the BECM replaced as well, so that I don't have to deal with it later, but the service tech told me that it not part of the CSB and I would either have to wait for it to fail or pay out of pocket for a new BECM... I can't believe Ford shipped trucks with faulty parts and refuse to fix them until it fails, this has to be illegal somehow. It's been in the shop longer than it's been in my driveway...

Update 3: Service advisor contacted me today and told me the battery came in today 10/18/23 and they should be able to repair the truck and get it back to me by Friday! I was pleasantly surprised that it came in less than 2 weeks, maybe because this was a brand new truck and given that I escalated the issue to the BEV teams might be why I got the battery so quickly.

As far as compensation for the time in the shop, the BEV team offered to pay for my first truck payment which is nice. I also wanted to ask for some ford pass points or extended warranty since this issue was discovered so early.

Has anybody had any luck getting ford pass points or a extended warranty as far as reimbursement for this claim?

 

[GoodSam]

Has anybody had any luck getting ford pass points or a extended warranty as far as reimbursement for this claim?

See or search for post #147 in this thread, where Ford gave a 8 yr extended warranty as compensation.

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