Silly Complaint - No Auto Down/Up Rear Windows

[AT193]

Bunch of reasons, but there are reasons. Blame lawyers and socialist government regulators, especially EU. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/why-car-power-windows-work-differently/

Based on the article you posted it seems like a choice made by the manufacturer and not "socialist government regulators":

" express-up is only deployed on cars where makers think the convenience will be appreciated or expected "

I guess their design/legal teams just don't feel its necessary to include it in a utilitarian pickup truck, doesn't have to be a government conspiracy to inconvenience us.

Also for what its worth I have seen someone get their head stuck in a closing window. It was an older man and the window closed on his head as he was sticking it out of the window, he meant to open the window more but accidentally closed it further, squishing his head into the top frame. It was a pretty scary moment for him, although in that instance he was not using the "express-up" feature.

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[GunRack]

If the Expedition has four auto down windows, can we just swap out the switch? Im guessing Ford reuses a lot of the switch parts like that.

What's the new F150 switch look like? Here's one from the Expedition: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232781908931

 

[Pioneer74]

If the Expedition has four auto down windows, can we just swap out the switch? Im guessing Ford reuses a lot of the switch parts like that.

What's the new F150 switch look like? Here's one from the Expedition: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232781908931

Won't work. There are no modules in the rear doors to control it.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

If the Expedition has four auto down windows, can we just swap out the switch? Im guessing Ford reuses a lot of the switch parts like that.

What's the new F150 switch look like? Here's one from the Expedition: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232781908931

Based on the article you posted it seems like a choice made by the manufacturer and not "socialist government regulators":

" express-up is only deployed on cars where makers think the convenience will be appreciated or expected "

I guess their design/legal teams just don't feel its necessary to include it in a utilitarian pickup truck, doesn't have to be a government conspiracy to inconvenience us.

Also for what its worth I have seen someone get their head stuck in a closing window. It was an older man and the window closed on his head as he was sticking it out of the window, he meant to open the window more but accidentally closed it further, squishing his head into the top frame. It was a pretty scary moment for him, although in that instance he was not using the "express-up" feature.

I was referring to the references in the article to regulations in Europe - we are faced with a lowest common denominator effect in a lot of automotive engineering - just as California's regulations control a lot of vehicle design for the rest of the country, Europe's set a standard because manufacturers benefit from product line consistency and fewer part numbers skus.

"One-touch window closing is called "express-up" in regulatory language, and is regulated because the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is concerned about arms, legs or necks getting stuck in windows that go up by themselves. In 2011, NHTSA noted that carmakers selling in this country were complying voluntarily with an arcane United Nations Economic Commission for Europe standard that dictates such window behavior. Later, US regulations extended that to cover any car window that can be closed remotely, either via key fob or an app."

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I don't think you 2 are even talking about the same thing anymore.

PopsGGi is correctly pointing out that nearly every $90k vehicle on the road has a more high end look and feel that the Lightning. That's not completely subjective as you are stating. It's more than an opinion.

You can't argue the point that the vast majority of $90k cars have much less plastic on the trim and dash than the Lightning, have auto up/down windows all around, and have lot more wood and leather trim in them than the Lightning. Those are facts.

Is the Lightning a good value overall? Well... That's a different story. It has a lot of technology and features you can't find in other trucks. I think it's a decent value considering no other vehicle can do everything the Lightning does. That doesn't change the fact that for the same price most other cars are "nicer" in a luxery look and feel sort of way.

We’re just not going to agree on quality or luxury at this point. I’ve owned many “luxury” marques and do not find my Platinum or King Ranch trims inferior in almost anyway to the Mercedes, BMWs, or Porsches that I’ve owned, and far superior to the Teslas. Porsches and Benzedrine are just as full of plastic surfaces. In the case of Porsche, you have the one brand where you can selectively cover most of that with leather at great expense on the custom options list, but I still find the Platinum as well appointed as any American luxury vehicle, and competitive with most others. When we want tight and sporting, we take the C4S, but when we want quiet and expansive comfort we take the pickup - far superior to our last Mercedes G series SUV.

 

[beatle]

Won't work. There are no modules in the rear doors to control it.

Do the rear doors have their own modules? I know on Tesla they use body control modules in the front doors that also control the rear doors.

I'm also curious of the auto up/down feature is missing from the individual rear window switches only, or if the feature is also missing from the 4-door switch pack in the driver's door.

 

[Pioneer74]

Do the rear doors have their own modules? I know on Tesla they use body control modules in the front doors that also control the rear doors.

I'm also curious of the auto up/down feature is missing from the individual rear window switches only, or if the feature is also missing from the 4-door switch pack in the driver's door.

Both front doors have their own modules to control the windows. I don't know how the rear door windows are controlled, but they don't have modules in them. You'd definitely have to switch the switches in the rear doors as well.

If somebody really wanted to make this work, they would have to figure out how they are controlled in the Expedition and try to integrate it into the Lightning. But, as far as I know, you can't just add modules. At least without changing the BCM to one from an Expedition. And then you run into another set of problems.

 

[Easycamper]

Given that I’m probably a year away from getting mine, it’s nice to read all the complaints.

 

[Nate977p]

Wow I opened a can of worms of discussion .

I genuinely thought this was a supply chain issue that they cut it out, really surprised to hear that this is normal. Just to clarify, I am in a Lariat, not Platinum; couldn't justify 10k for fancier leather, better sound, and much worse wheels (good luck finding good snows for those 22s!), but I am sure many can and are happy!

As for luxury, I completely agree the trucks are not in the same category as any luxury marquee. I was tempted to go Platinum for the nicer trimmings, but with all I could find on it, plastic would still abound. 2 cars ago I had a 2013 Audi A4. Without a doubt the interior of that car was leaps and bounds better than my Model 3 or the truck, and it was much less than either. But that's okay!

Yes the interior components are lesser than similarly priced vehicles, but it's not like that's not going anywhere. There is a tremendous amount of tech, a huge battery, and two powerful motors. Value wise, I think this is kickass. My model 3 was within $100 of the truck 4 years ago. Ignoring inflation, the truck gives me magnitudes more tech, utilities, and features than the Model 3.

Find me any $80-90k vehicle that has similar tech, power, capability, and battery size. You cannot. Yes some higher-tier luxury trimings we're traded for that, but man I think the Lightning at all price points, even the Platinum, kill it on value when compared to the market. Now affordability is a different argument.

Back to the window switches.... That is a huge miss to me and obvious cost cutting. I don't feel auto windows are something exclusive to luxury marques. Again my 1999 base GLS Passat (cloth seats) had it. According to the internet, that car was $21k new (or $38k with inflation). So maybe I have a warped thought on this feature from past experience, but silly to me something I had standard in a base near-luxury brand car 20 years ago isn't standard in Ford's flagship vehicle....

The reason I care is I have become very accustomed to it and open the windows very often. Multiple times now I have left the rear windows opened a few inches thinking I closed them because I pressed the up button. I have a huge fear of leaving my windows open. The Tesla has trained me to just press up AND it alerts me if a window is left open for an extended time. I am going from never worrying about it and now needing to be paranoid about it . Much worse things to be worried about, but figured I would share my silly complaint.

 

[Regular150]

My 21 Platinum is Loaded and is as nice inside as my Mercedes EClass, absolutely beautiful Interior.
It doesn't have express down rear windows though.
I do have Massaging/Heated/Ventilated seats, and heated rears.
Express down is a curios commission in the rear for sure.

Avg Drive battery cost for manufacturers is $118 Kwh, down from $1,200 per KwH in 2010.

Still, that means the ER battery cells alone cost $15,576 so my guess is the interior is where Ford tried to make up some costs on the Lightning.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

We’re just not going to agree on quality or luxury at this point. I’ve owned many “luxury” marques and do not find my Platinum or King Ranch trims inferior in almost anyway to the Mercedes, BMWs, or Porsches that I’ve owned, and far superior to the Teslas. Porsches and Benzedrine are just as full of plastic surfaces. In the case of Porsche, you have the one brand where you can selectively cover most of that with leather at great expense on the custom options list, but I still find the Platinum as well appointed as any American luxury vehicle, and competitive with most others. When we want tight and sporting, we take the C4S, but when we want quiet and expansive comfort we take the pickup - far superior to our last Mercedes G series SUV.

You're trolling at this point.

A quick interwebs search shows that you will not find a new $90k Mercedes and Porsche with that much plastic on the doors and dash. In that price range they are offering features like heated armrests and other luxury stuff.

 

[Regular150]

Really? I'm trading in my '21 PowerBoost to the selling dealer with 12k miles on it for $2k more than I paid for it in May '21. That truck has more content than any of my four prior or current Teslas or my wife's Porsche, all of which cost significantly more than it's original $82k list or $77k selling price. My Lightning at $95k seems like a bargain. Stupid expensive but everything is relative.

Off topic, but I'm finding it difficult to imagine me getting rid of the 21 Platinum Powerboost. The 6.5' bed is another reason.
Let me know if your happy with the switch after you get your lightning.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Off topic, but I'm finding it difficult to imagine me getting rid of the 21 Platinum Powerboost. The 6.5' bed is another reason.
Let me know if your happy with the switch after you get your lightning.

Even more off topic, we also have a F350 KR diesel 8’ bed and an F250 gas work truck at the Virginia farm. The issue is an HOA requirement for half ton or less at our Florida place. Bed size isn’t an issue, as we can load stuff in the trailer/boat for long trips, and is a bit of an “advantage” as my wife is complaining that it’ll now be a daily driver, as I also intend to sell the Tesla MX we park/store there half the year, as it will go out of warranty soon, and I won’t own a Tesla out of warranty. So the Lightning will replace both the ‘21 KR PowerBoost and the MX, and become be her grocery getter from November-May, and she’s not happy about parking/driving it. I’m working on the “but it’s shorter and turns easier than the other trucks” angle… and a promise to upgrade her Florida-based Porsche C4S to the ‘24 all-EV Boxster, for which she is #1 on the list at Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach. I also tried the Taycan angle, no dice, she wants a convertible in Florida. I even offered to drive her high school car down there, a ‘71 beetle that I just finished restoring, but it still comes out “I’ll still have to move that huge truck out of the way in the driveway.” Which is the rub, because despite being shorter, it won’t fit in the Florida garage, so will be outside blocking something inside. There are still plenty of cool cars for which no EV can substitute - especially when you still have the one you drove in high school, 50 years later. No one “needs” electric windows or even an automatic convertible top. Drove this on our honeymoon 45 years ago:

 

[NCMike]

Off topic, but I'm finding it difficult to imagine me getting rid of the 21 Platinum Powerboost. The 6.5' bed is another reason.
Let me know if your happy with the switch after you get your lightning.

I came from a 2015 King Ranch with a 6.5ft bed that I used regularly. I also had a tonneau cover so I used the bed more as a truck for my tools. I was really hesitant about leaving the longer bed, but after a 2 weeks of ownership I can say that I am perfectly happy with the shorter bed. I have my tools in the frunk and in the under seat storage. I do have another tonneau cover coming but I think I will be fine with the shorter bed. It's also easier to park which is a perk.

 

[Regular150]

I came from a 2015 King Ranch with a 6.5ft bed that I used regularly. I also had a tonneau cover so I used the bed more as a truck for my tools. I was really hesitant about leaving the longer bed, but after a 2 weeks of ownership I can say that I am perfectly happy with the shorter bed. I have my tools in the frunk and in the under seat storage. I do have another tonneau cover coming but I think I will be fine with the shorter bed. It's also easier to park which is a perk.

Ahh, great point, the Frunk is a great resource. Lumber though and longer building supplies for Reno's is where I see the benefits. It's crazy how much my 9,000 mile 21 Platinum is worth, but it's got Zero Percent Interest so I'm really struggling. May have to get rid of MachE if I can talk the wife into 2 trucks!

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