Sold my Pro due to high energy price in MA and I drive too far

[broncoaz]

Don't blame you for bailing, if I drove long distances as frequently as you have I'd likely do the same with similar rates here in CT. I really don't understand how our states want us to adopt BEVs while allowing these monopolized utilities to rake us over the coals on electric delivery surcharges. And none of the Lightning trims even qualify for our state tax incentive anymore since they pushed all the MSRPs over $50K.

Delivery rates through Eversource nearly double the cost of service up to approx. $0.030/kWh, pretty much the same as what EA+ offers for DCFC here ($0.31/kWh). With gas currently hovering around $3.30 an ICE with 25MPG would be the same cost/mile with greater overall range, and that's without even taking into account the winter range loss on the Lightning.

This is a concern I’ve heard many people here mention, convince us to buy EV’s than jack up the electric rates and delivery fees. Ultimately the only way to get off the grid and out of their reach is a large home solar system with battery backup. I’m interested, but not until I buy the next house.

Another suggestion from a buddy who does solar installs was that the state’s decarbonization initiatives and mandates for clean energy has increased the cost of electricity and delivery. MA is hanging it’s hat on offshore wind as the savior, but they shut down the nuclear power plant

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[broncoaz]

Did you add anything to your house for charging the Lighting?

Yes, I added a 40 amp charger to an existing 50 amp outlet on the back of the house before the truck arrived, then installed a new 50 amp circuit and charger hardwired outside my garage a couple weeks after the truck arrived. My total cost on chargers and install of the new circuit was $2019. I will be filing for the 30% federal tax credit for those costs.

I did not get to the installation of chargers at both of the offices I work out of, but that was going to be another $3600 (employer paid) for both.

 

[Toby57]

Thanks. Two grand ain't so bad. Hopefully you will get the tax credit..
IMO that is still an added cost of the Lighting or an EV. Some don't seem to consider that as a cost of driving an EV. I do think two grand would get me what I needed to charge a Lighting.
I did not vote in your poll but I fall into the .10>.15. per kwh.

 

[krusshall]

Not much of a "test" when the testing period was a month.

I have driven EV for my job with similar use patterns. An extra 1-2 hours a week at a DCFC is pretty minor and a worthy trade-off for the benefit of not ever having to deal with and be around diesel fuel, engine oil, DEF.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I sold my 2022 Lightning Pro today. I really liked almost everything about the truck, but the cost of utilities in eastern Massachusetts made the truck less appealing for me. When I was running cost estimates on the Lighting I was using 14.9 cents per kWh as my baseline electricity cost, I had asked my wife for the number off the bill and she gave me the cost of electricity, not including the cost of distribution. Upon reviewing the bill after taking delivery of my truck in September I found that we are paying 34.1 cents per kWh for electricity and distribution, our bill for 941 kWh was $320.80. When I lived in AZ I was paying about 10 cents per kWh, my survey here showed 68.7% of respondents were under 15 cents/kWh. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-pay-per-kwh-at-home.12567/page-5#post-268090 I haven’t been able to get an answer from my utility on why electricity is so expensive here and if anything can be done to reduce the bill. The governor signed a bill in August 2022 requiring utilities to develop a time of use plan, there is no date for implementation. I looked at putting solar on my home, but it’s about $50K up front for what I’d need to power the truck and a power wall, supposedly I’ll get back all but $12K in 5 years time. Spending more than the cost of the truck on solar now is not appealing since I’m looking for another house.

The net of the high costs means I’m saving about 20% vs my 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 diesel work truck getting 27 mpg. 20% isn’t nothing, but at 14.9 cents/kWh I was saving 60% compared to the diesel. At the end of the day the 20% saving isn’t enough to go from a 650 mile range with 5 minute fill ups to a ~200 mile range with necessary 30-40 minute stops for DCFC on days I drive farther. If I drove less in a day I would’ve opted to keep the Lightning, but I’m pushing the 160 mile mark 2-3 days per week. The expected winter range drop would make my situation worse, and likely making the EV more expensive than diesel. To top that off the utilities here have asked for a 64% increase in electric rates that should be decided on next month. My truck is heading to the Midwest to a guy paying 9 cents per kWh and less overnight, he will save a bunch of money compared to gasoline.

I‘m a fleet manager for a construction company with 150 trucks, I bought the Lightning personally to test the concept for the company. With government mandates for no new ICE vehicles by 2035 (MA follows CA rules) I wanted the data and knowledge on what EV’s are currently capable of. As this point in MA with the electricity prices 2-4x what most people are paying in other states I can’t recommend electric vehicles for our fleet. Aside from the costs, many of our drivers run 200+ miles in a day and tow 14’ enclosed trailers. I have a 2023 Bolt EUV on order for one of our drivers, now I’m debating on canceling. I’ll have to check out the Bolt forum and get some data before I decide.

I am very glad I purchased and experienced the Lightning, it’s an amazing vehicle and driving experience that I will miss. I am looking forward to what time and market competition will bring for EV’s and more specifically battery technology in the next 5-10 years. I’m a huge advocate for EV’s just not in my state right now due to the electric rates. I have notified my Chevy fleet guy that I want a Silverado EV as soon as they are available, and I have personal reservations for the Silverado EV and Tesla. I will reevaluate the energy price issue when the next truck is available.

My survey:

That electrical rate is absurd. I'm on solar - in a state ended up with a 5 year breakeven. But the couple of times I had to pay $0.31/kWh I balked at exactly th same thing - this isn't any cheaper than gas.

 

[watchdoc]

You probably should have kept it thru the winter to see if it would meet your daily needs and further sharpen your calculations. 160 miles is totally doable especially if you pre condition the cabin and battery. The time of use rates (when they come availble) would likely get you back to 60%+ in savings over diesel. Also, $50 grand for solar seems awefully high. How large of a system was it and why would you get a powerwall? The truck is a powerwall!!!

 

[metroshot]

......I drove both trucks back to back for a week, I do like the interface and other benefits of the EV, but I don’t despise the diesel truck’s characteristics. One plus for the diesel is not even thinking about how much range using the climate control system might cost me especially in the winter. I really wanted to make the EV work, and it’s awesome, but it doesn’t work for me yet and the costs don’t pencil out at 34.1 cents/kWh. Diesel prices will fluctuate and trend upwards, but it seems like electricity here is on the March upwards as well.

A very good example of the right tool for the job.

In your situation, it makes more sense to use a diesel.

Thanks for testing out the EV in your work situation.

But the rate of energy is also a daunting to EV owners - my state wants to go all EV by 2035 and I don't see that happening with the high rates ($0.51 kWh), increasing rates the next 5 years, flex power alerts to not charge during the day, and low L3 chargers to make it convenient.

The only saving grace is the high gasoline prices here in CA....

 

[LightningShow]

I can’t blame you. At $0.34/kwh it doesn’t make it nearly as compelling. I’m in the same boat but “only” $0.25/kWh (before the 64% increase). When the rate goes to 41 cents after the increase (with no TOU plan available!) then a full charge is looking pretty expensive (~$60), especially in the winter when the net efficiency after losses is probably 1.5 mi/kwh or less. At that rate it’s about $0.28/mi which would be more expensive than an ICE truck getting 18mpg at $4/gal. If I didn’t do most of my charging at work for free then it wouldn’t make much sense financially.

Mind you, I didn’t buy it for the financial benefits (lower maintenance is more important to me than lower fuel cost). I just like the technology. The financial benefit is simply a nice side effect. It just so happens that the benefit in MA is probably less than anywhere in the country since our electricity rates are so high and gas isn’t particularly expensive (like CA).

I’ll be adding solar next year so that will help offset some of the home charging costs but i can only cover about half my use with the solar.

Electrify America *is* still a reasonable option if you want to save money (which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it) but otherwise there isn’t a good financial case for EVs in MA until the utilities handle their costs. Fortunately, I do have two EA stations in relatively close proximity and directly on my typical driving routes so I can use them, when needed, for much less than charging at home.

 

[LightningShow]

You probably should have kept it thru the winter to see if it would meet your daily needs and further sharpen your calculations. 160 miles is totally doable especially if you pre condition the cabin and battery. The time of use rates (when they come availble) would likely get you back to 60%+ in savings over diesel. Also, $50 grand for solar seems awefully high. How large of a system was it and why would you get a powerwall? The truck is a powerwall!!!

Solar companies know they can charge more in MA because the electricity rates are so high. I got quotes for a ~15kW system earlier this year, they were all around $50k before incentives. No battery storage in those quotes.

 

[lancersrock]

You probably should have kept it thru the winter to see if it would meet your daily needs and further sharpen your calculations. 160 miles is totally doable especially if you pre condition the cabin and battery. The time of use rates (when they come availble) would likely get you back to 60%+ in savings over diesel. Also, $50 grand for solar seems awefully high. How large of a system was it cb and why would you get a powerwall? The truck is a powerwall!!!

My system will be 11.5 kw no battery backup and around that price. I had 5 different quotes all close to that. I’m sure they are taking advantage of the 30%rebate. I was able to get a 1.5% interest rate so figured better now than before prices go up more. After I build a new garage I’ll have a better idea of how much larger I need to make the system due to the lightning.

 

[watchdoc]

Solar companies know they can charge more in MA because the electricity rates are so high. I got quotes for a ~15kW system earlier this year, they were all around $50k before incentives. No battery storage in those quotes.

Yikes!! I'm installing a 10kw system for half that next year with no battery storage. (before credits)

 

[broncoaz]

You probably should have kept it thru the winter to see if it would meet your daily needs and further sharpen your calculations. 160 miles is totally doable especially if you pre condition the cabin and battery. The time of use rates (when they come availble) would likely get you back to 60%+ in savings over diesel. Also, $50 grand for solar seems awefully high. How large of a system was it and why would you get a powerwall? The truck is a powerwall!!!

If it wasn’t working for me now it wouldn’t have been better in winter. I thought about keeping it for a while to get the data, but honestly the resale value now and current/coming recession did factor in my decision to sell now. This was my personal asset, not a company asset.

Your post suggests some major “ifs” for the truck to work. IF I precondition daily. IF the state mandated TOU happens. I also considered how much electricity preconditioning daily might cost. I was also concerned about situations where I might arrive at the office and then immediately have to depart for any level of work issues/emergencies without having time to charge.

For solar I was looking at a 15kW system with one power wall. The reason for the power wall is that the Ford/Sunrun solution is $5200 in hardware plus install, plus there are additional credits that basically wipe out the cost of the power wall in the first 5 years.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Diesel isn’t specifically cheap here, I saw $5.19 at the pump today. Here was my analysis I posted on 10/6:

Based on the seemingly high price of electricity, it doesn’t appear that I’m really saving much money vs my 1500 ecodiesel pickup. I’ve driven 1020.8 miles at 2.3 kWh average according to the truck, so with my home energy rate of $.341 443.8 kWh works out to $151.34. My 1500 diesel averages about 27 mpg, so at $4.89 per gallon of diesel that works out to 835.62 miles for the same cost.

I understand your analysis, for you the Lightning is not the best solution so far as cost of home-energy is concerned, DCFC advantages are only as good as availability is, I'd love to see that large field Tesla FC stations near the foot of the Sagamore bridge converted to CCS-1 as well more stations near me.

Diesel is sky rocketing the past 14 days, 5 & 10 cent jumps every couple of days makes my situation and analysis a lot different than yours, my former Power Stroke Diesel [PSD] was averaging 13 to 17 MPG depending on what I was doing, so call it 15, and my power charge for Constellation Energy is 10.47 cents a kWh and National Grid charges 15.94 cents a kWh to bring me that juice, total cost 26.41 cents a kWh, I can earn 3 or 5 cents a kWh depending on the season to defer charging off peak, though in Mass "OFF PEAK" is not as generous as other parts of the nation where weekends might be included, here they are not!!!

212 mile round trip in the PSD (hauling 13-mpg), energy cost alone $84, while the lightning (hauling 1.0 M/KW) $56, [though the reality is I need to DCFC twice on that route though luckily it's cheaper to do that than fully charging at home] so the real savings will be greater.

HT makes a lot of valid points concerning the secondary benefits of EV transportation, but in the grand scheme of analysis it's what each of us value most that either makes it work or not work.

Good luck with future analysis of the Chevy and Tesla-CT as they become available.

 

[jimfigler]

Don't blame you for bailing, if I drove long distances as frequently as you have I'd likely do the same with similar rates here in CT. I really don't understand how our states want us to adopt BEVs while allowing these monopolized utilities to rake us over the coals on electric delivery surcharges. And none of the Lightning trims even qualify for our state tax incentive anymore since they pushed all the MSRPs over $50K.

Delivery rates through Eversource nearly double the cost of service up to approx. $0.030/kWh, pretty much the same as what EA+ offers for DCFC here ($0.31/kWh). With gas currently hovering around $3.30 an ICE with 25MPG would be the same cost/mile with greater overall range, and that's without even taking into account the winter range loss on the Lightning.

I love the term ‘delivery’ for electricity. ‘Hold on dear the electric delivery truck is here’

 

[lakeguy55]

The lower electric rates quoted for other parts of the country may soon change too. Here in NH, my bill last month jumped over 60% from the prior year with similar usage. I understand that most other New England states (and FL where I also spend time) have seen similar jumps due to greatly increased fuel costs for the utilities. It takes time for the regulatory agencies to approve the increases. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the other states "catch up" over the next few months.

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