Tesla Adapter overview from Tom

[Zprime29]

All these throttling charging claims feels like a snipe hunt. There is document proof on this forum that our trucks can and do achieve full charge rate (170+kW). So I don't care who did the testing, you can't convince me that it isn't possible.

On the adaptors, until I see some OBDII data I'm up in the air. I'm inclined to think people are jumping to conclusions before we have the full picture. This ain't like pumping gas, there's a lot of voodoo when it comes to charging up.

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[FLSpartan04]

All these throttling charging claims feels like a snipe hunt. There is document proof on this forum that our trucks can and do achieve full charge rate (170+kW). So I don't care who did the testing, you can't convince me that it isn't possible.

On the adaptors, until I see some OBDII data I'm up in the air. I'm inclined to think people are jumping to conclusions before we have the full picture. This ain't like pumping gas, there's a lot of voodoo when it comes to charging up.

When I do my side by side test, I’ll also hook up Car Scanner (at least to my truck) and see what the requested vs actual is. We could even move the obd back and forth to verify (if we see charge rate differences) to see if the truck or the temperature sensor in the adapter is causing the derating.

 

[chl]

There are several areas that can get hot that could be sensitive to ambient temp.
1. Could be the Truck itself detecting its battery temps and requesting lower power. The issue is observed in several models and brands of vehicles (including Teslas) so suspect the vehicle is not the limiting factor.
2. Could be the temp in the charger cable. Modern ones are cooled and should be able to keep up regardless of ambient.
3. Could be the Tesla handle temp. The handle can get hot due to its inherent design (cross sections of the metal components involved). Tesla has boxed themselves in with their very slim handle design. There is only so much room in there for thick metal conductors and cooling. They might be pushing it with 500 amps.
4.. Could be heat where the contacts between the Tesla handle and the adapter are not connected firmly with as much metal to metal contact area as they should. The quality of the contact connections would be a function of the contacts ion the adapter and how well they mate with the Tesla handle contacts. Both could be out of sepc dueto wear, damage, etc. This heat is likely also detected by the Tesla Handle eat sensor. In worse case scenario, the adapter also has an overheat sensor, but that would shutdown the charging completely, not just throttle it.
5. Similar case where the adapter contacts mate with the vehicle inlet.
6. Could be some kind of internal overheat of the Tesla Supercharger itself (unlikely).

My guess is its a combination of 3 and 4.

Yes, exactly, and the heat is lost charging power due to electrical resistance.

The handle/adapter heat is due to electrical resistance somewhere in the handle/adapter, as noted it could be the resistance of the internal wire or the connection point of the pins or both. The handles have cooling to dissipate some of the heat into a cooling liquid, but what about the adapter? No active cooling there so just radiated heat.

Whether cooled or not, the electrical resistance of the handle/adapter will have the effect of dropping some voltage proportional to the resistance and current (R x I = E).

The voltage drop will slow down the charging, increasing the time to reach a particular SOC.

There is some amount of lost power (I x I x R, current squared times resistance = power or I x E = power as well where E is the voltage drop).

Utilities use high voltage transmission lines to minimize the power lost to resistance, the I squared R power by lowering the required current to deliver a particular amount of power.

That is why some EVs are moving towards higher voltage systems which would require lower charging currents and result in less lost power.

Increasing the charging current to decrease charge time would require larger cables to reduce the voltage drop and power wasted, which would be expensive, so like electric utilities, a higher voltage transmission is preferred.

It's the 400V vs 800v issue. (see: https://www.eletimes.com/pump-the-brakes-when-it-comes-to-ev-fast-charging-stations)

"... 800 Volts is simply more efficient than 400 volts as it experiences less energy loss for the same amount of power consumed. It lowers the current; the lower the current, the lower the resistance (energy) loss in the conductors. With double the voltage of 400V, an electric car can charge at much faster speeds. ..."

 

[chl]

All these throttling charging claims feels like a snipe hunt. There is document proof on this forum that our trucks can and do achieve full charge rate (170+kW). So I don't care who did the testing, you can't convince me that it isn't possible.

On the adaptors, until I see some OBDII data I'm up in the air. I'm inclined to think people are jumping to conclusions before we have the full picture. This ain't like pumping gas, there's a lot of voodoo when it comes to charging up.

Not sniping, just reporting what independent facilities with a background in engineering, analysis and testing have found.

It was predicted, it is explainable technically, and it has been measured and quantified by experts.

And besides, it is a rather small difference.

Believe it or not.

 

[Zprime29]

Not sniping, just reporting what independent facilities with a background in engineering, analysis and testing have found.

It was predicted, it is explainable technically, and it has been measured and quantified by experts.

And besides, it is a rather small difference.

Believe it or not.

Miles per minute is not a good measure. Especially when they don't tell us how they determined the efficiency number required to determine miles per minute. I got 2.8 mpk over the winter and some in the north got 1.8 mpk. How are their test results relatable to this? Did they use EPA? Their own 70mph results? How did they conduct their 70mph test? There are a lot of unknowns, so I remain an unbeliever.

 

[No Oil HaHa]

Watched it, love hearing Tom's take on these. I ended up ordering the A2Z (thanks to some prodding from @RickLightning ) just before Ford started sending out the June orders. Neither has shipped yet for me, I'm guessing both will ship near the end of this week or early next week. I'd like to have at least one of them before I head out on July 3rd.

With a little luck I'll convince the wife she can handle an EV and then we'll already have an adapter for it. Since @Ford Motor Company dropped the ball on their 3 row, it'll most likely be the EV9. Looking to buy one early next year unless I happen across a smokin deal.

I ordered my A2Z on May 31st and it is scheduled to be delivered this Friday, the 21st. Looking forward to it as I’m tired of dealing with the unreliable EA network in my daily travels.

 

[GoodSam]

Lectron Vortex ordered based on Auto NACS connection, 2 year warranty, and low temperature increase (same as Tesla). Hope it does not stick!

Update 6-24-24:
Ordered Lectron Vortex on 6-14-24, 6-17-24 they say it "is on the way".
USPS: Pre-Shipment, Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
SHAKOPEE, MN 55379 June 17, 2024, 11:27 am

UPDATE, actual ship on 7-2-24, rec'd 7-5-24.
Here are some pics of all sides of the Lectron Vortex and its boxing stuff and manual:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JXtKHoRtkP222rUc8
Very solid, good springs on levers.

UPDATE:
Some possible unlatching problems with Lectron Vortex discussed here:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/lectron-vortex-plug-available-on-amazon-vine.20100/

 

[JRT]

Good stuf, I like Tom's approach but I'm just waiting for the free one. I have ICE Challenger GT that because we use to have all the kids with bus on trips is very low milage. My last is heading to USM Aug, so a 2 door with a monster trunk will be an awesome road trip car and avoid charging drama.

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