Tesla Adapter overview from Tom

[RickKeen]

My understanding is that the Tesla Supercharger handle temp causes it to reduce power on the charger side.
I don't think there is a capability in the protocol for intermediate adapters to communicate in a way to request lower power. I think adapters can only shut down the whole connection if they overheat by disconnecting the connection (which causes the charger to shut down the high current gracefully).
So the only difference various adapter designs could make is if it produces less heat in the contacts with the Tesla handle, or are better at helping dissipating that heat.

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[Maquis]

Keep in mind that Ford has still not shipped JUNE orders. They are shipping April and May orders, that moved to June.

A2ZEV's Typhoon adapter ordered today would arrive in 2 weeks or less, and the 10% discount is automatic. The better deal is to pick the Destination Adapter (Stellar) in the dropdown menu, get 18.4% off both. Then, at many hotels with a Tesla Destination charger, or a relative's house, you can charge also.

My 2 orders were always June and both were delivered June 15th.

 

[ScubaSteve_TheReal]

Received mine today, 06/17/24
Order# 47xx on 02/29/24

 

[RickLightning]

My 2 orders were always June and both were delivered June 15th.

Numbers?

My low 5000s were May, then June.

 

[Maquis]

Numbers?

My low 5000s were May, then June.

4812, 4954. I ordered at about 9 AM central time on the 29th.

 

[RickLightning]

4812, 4954. I ordered at about 9 AM central time on the 29th.

I had higher numbers than you by 500 or so, and I got a May initial date. My confirmation emails are 10:08 and 10:10, so 8 minutes after you.

 

[Maquis]

I had higher numbers than you by 500 or so, and I got a May initial date. My confirmation emails are 10:08 and 10:10, so 8 minutes after you.

That’s really weird - I know I followed the link to the status when I received to confirmation emails and it was June. Probably just another Ford website anomaly.

 

[BlueLightning]

It’s all a wash, we are on a downhill turn in society!

 

[chl]

They are all rated for the same charge rate, I haven't seen anything to indicate any of them throttle charge rate. Do you have a source you could point to?

The throttling is apparently real according to independent testing by Consumer Reports and at least one other independent tester (AMCI).

"... While Tesla Superchargers are DC fast chargers, the non-Tesla EVs charged at a slower rate than they are claimed to be capable of charging on a DC fast charger..."

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...rchargers-work-for-non-tesla-evs-a4713673565/

AMCI compared fast charging lightnings and other vehicles at EA's and Tesla's fast chargers and found Tesla's did not charge as fast, for the Lightning is was about 5 miles less range (the measure they used) per 6 minute intervals (their testing standard MP6).

https://www.autoblog.com/press-rele...-charging-experience-they-may-hope-for_56470/

For what it's worth.

EDIT: The original info with table:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...g-experience-they-may-hope-for-302170421.html

 

[Zprime29]

My understanding is that the Tesla Supercharger handle temp causes it to reduce power on the charger side.
I don't think there is a capability in the protocol for intermediate adapters to communicate in a way to request lower power. I think adapters can only shut down the whole connection if they overheat by disconnecting the connection (which causes the charger to shut down the high current gracefully).
So the only difference various adapter designs could make is if it produces less heat in the contacts with the Tesla handle, or are better at helping dissipating that heat.

We could confirm whether it's the station or the truck by comparing what the truck is asking for on an OBDII reader. Given my charging experience in hot temperatures, I'm inclined to believe it's the truck lowering it's requested power due to high battery temp.

I can't remember if it was this video or another, but I recall Tom saying he was thinking about trying the adapters in AZ when it got hot. @tommolog its hot...come on down!

 

[Zprime29]

The throttling is apparently real according to independent testing by Consumer Reports and at least one other independent tester (AMCI).

"... While Tesla Superchargers are DC fast chargers, the non-Tesla EVs charged at a slower rate than they are claimed to be capable of charging on a DC fast charger..."

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...rchargers-work-for-non-tesla-evs-a4713673565/

AMCI compared fast charging lightnings and other vehicles at EA's and Tesla's fast chargers and found Tesla's did not charge as fast, for the Lightning is was about 5 miles less range (the measure they used) per 6 minute intervals (their testing standard MP6).

https://www.autoblog.com/press-rele...-charging-experience-they-may-hope-for_56470/

For what it's worth.

What RickKeen was talking about is directly related to using the "official" Ford adaptor vs 3rd party adaptors. Those articles are comparing charging at SC vs CC1 locations and I have my own concerns about their study and I choose to not give it much credit.

 

[chl]

It’s all a wash, we are on a downhill turn in society!

I looked up the retail price of the FCSP CCS cord, and it was $500 (from Ford), which caused me to put the FCSP INSIDE my garage - less convenient for charging the Lightning, but no point tempting the local greedy (or anti-EV?) SOBs by putting it outdoors.

https://chargers.ford.com/replacement-parts

 

[htobin]

Finally got my Lectron a couple of weeks ago. I finally had to use a crow bar to the adapter from the charging cable. Returned it with promise of immediate replacement. Just today got a notice a new one was shipping out. Due Sat when we will be away. Also sent a label for return. Unfortunately paid with Apple cash so no good way to dispute the whole transaction, has has been a total screw up.. My comment below.

"Better check with Lectrion again. I am not the only one who got one that wouldn't disconnect. When I contacted the company they said return it and they would replace it immediately. That was about 10 days ago and still no replacement. I had sent back the bad one and requested a refund, but they are balking on that, stating that they will send a replacement. I personally would stay clear of them"

 

[chl]

What RickKeen was talking about is directly related to using the "official" Ford adaptor vs 3rd party adaptors. Those articles are comparing charging at SC vs CC1 locations and I have my own concerns about their study and I choose to not give it much credit.

Yes, I know.
But some of the difference could be common to all CCS adapters on Tesla fast chargers.

As for the studies. if there is some degree of throttling, as independent testing by at least two non-affiliated testing groups now suggests, it could be 1) intentional, perhaps because Tesla knows how much current their vehicles can handle but maybe doesn't trust other vehicle manufacturers specs and current handling capabilities? Or maybe it is 2) unintentional, that is a quirk of adapting the NACS protocols to work with CCS protocols.

Number 2) was actually predicted by 'experts' when standardization of Tesla's NACS was fast-tracked recently.

The charging current is a software controlled interaction between the vehicle and the EVSE. Besides having the right adapter/plug, the software control has to be "compatible" and communicate properly.

There are ISO standards for charging protocols, plugs, etc. that are followed by EVSE makers and vehicle manufacturers, J1772 and CCS for example - TESLA follows J1772 communications as far as I can tell, but their plug design and the protocol for fast charging was a proprietary standard in the US which only relatively recently was officially opened to other vehicle manufacturers to use and even more recently was approved by SAE and adopted as SAEJ3400.

However, as some commentators noted "...SAEJ3400 "will look of course a bit different to that what Tesla has defined as its NACS", says Wulf Schlachter, founder of mobility consultancy DXBe Management.

And this divergence from Tesla's own NACS charge points could lead to an inconsistent user experience, some industry figures warn, with any lingering barriers to interoperability after the promise of standardisation playing into Tesla's hands.

"That is the trap the OEMs are falling into," cautions Martin Wosnitza, head of public charging at German automaker Audi, warning that other EV manufacturers "will be forced to use NACS, and then it will not work as well as Tesla's version". ...

https://www.evinfocus.com/tesla-chargers-officially-become-industry-standard/

It seems that might be the case judging from the independent testing going on (and some anecdotal experiences by non-experts).

The good news is it was not a huge amount of throttling - 5 miles of range per 6 minutes of charging with the Lightning.

And maybe the slightly slower fast charging will disappear when Ford implements the NACS socket and protocol in the next generation of Lightnings?

 

[RickKeen]

There are several areas that can get hot that could be sensitive to ambient temp.
1. Could be the Truck itself detecting its battery temps and requesting lower power. The issue is observed in several models and brands of vehicles (including Teslas) so suspect the vehicle is not the limiting factor.
2. Could be the temp in the charger cable. Modern ones are cooled and should be able to keep up regardless of ambient.
3. Could be the Tesla handle temp. The handle can get hot due to its inherent design (cross sections of the metal components involved). Tesla has boxed themselves in with their very slim handle design. There is only so much room in there for thick metal conductors and cooling. They might be pushing it with 500 amps.
4.. Could be heat where the contacts between the Tesla handle and the adapter are not connected firmly with as much metal to metal contact area as they should. The quality of the contact connections would be a function of the contacts ion the adapter and how well they mate with the Tesla handle contacts. Both could be out of sepc dueto wear, damage, etc. This heat is likely also detected by the Tesla Handle eat sensor. In worse case scenario, the adapter also has an overheat sensor, but that would shutdown the charging completely, not just throttle it.
5. Similar case where the adapter contacts mate with the vehicle inlet.
6. Could be some kind of internal overheat of the Tesla Supercharger itself (unlikely).

My guess is its a combination of 3 and 4.

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