Your 'Connected' Car May Be Transmitting Your Driving Data to Insurance Companies

[ctuan13]

Well once again, it seems people are coming to the realization that it is in fact impossible to really control what data you do and don't share when your vehicle has a perpetual data connection and is running proprietary closed-source software while phoning home.

For those that are okay with that, more power to you.

But for those who already don't use fordpass, etc, and are interested in regaining a bit of privacy, a little shameless plug, almost two years ago, I made a video about one of the first things I did with my truck to hardware disconnect my TCU and disable any telemetry:

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[Dinozero]

I am upset because I shouldn't lose vital functionality in my truck to disable the sharing.

Have you all seen the Reddit user that is reporting that is insurance went from 1k for six months to over 5k for six months? He posted pictures from Liberty Mutual. No accidents, no tickets, and no idea his information was being shared.


I am a safe driver, most people call me a Grandpa driver.

But there are "spaces" in the Country, farm roads, etc. Where it is SAFE to do a 0-60 launch or test out the acceleration of our fast trucks.

How does the truck know if I'm in a safe place or not?

Hard braking is DANGEROUS, because.. why do people hard brake? It means they're speeding without looking and brake at the LAST SECOND and those types of people are dangerous!

But an EV owner may brake hard using REGEN when there is no one in front of them and they're looking right at the road!

Or maybe an animal ran out in front of you..

Does the "data" know that?

 

[hturnerfamily]

"...Have you all seen the Reddit user that is reporting that is insurance went from 1k for six months to over 5k for six months? He posted pictures from Liberty Mutual. No accidents, no tickets, and no idea his information was being shared...."

Do you really BELIEVE anyone on 'reddit'?? That is just a site to 'vent', without regards to facts and true information. No more believable than folks who spout "my premium DOUBLED!"... which is not factual, and they don't provide any proof of such.. Anytime our cost or premiums go 'up', we tend to over-exaggerate the real numbers.
There are MANY reasons a premium can 'change', but that's hardly a reason to 'assume' that it's just because of 'data' being derived from driving a 'connected car'... I'm highly suspicious and would doubt that the driver/owner/family is 'perfect'... their driving history, adding a new teenage driver, and other factors, are far MOST likely to be any culprit of 'increases'... Insurance Companies also periodically have premium increases, across the board, to ALL customers, at any given time, and has NOTHING to do whatsoever with data or driving history.

Many customers in my agency's past have 'sworn' that they had 'NO' driving history records... their own driver license MVR Report proves much different.

I've had customers who 'swore' their premiums doubled, for NO reason. When I investigate their policy, and what changes have been made during the policy timeframe, we find that they conveniently 'forgot' that they traded their old car for a BRAND NEW one several months back. Their 'old' car had only Liability. Their new car, with financing, requires FULL COVERAGE...a LOT more premium to boot, although the 'base rate' on their policy, overall, has not changed one ioda...

perspective, and memory, have a lot to do with 'assuming' things...

 

[tls]

Thanks for explaining this. However, it begs the question: if it isn't legal to use driver specific data to change driver specific rates, how are they using traffic violations against people?

The claim is not correct for many states, or is, at least, highly misleading. In every state where they operate except California, Tesla Insurance has in fact had rates approved that charge drivers variable premiums according to their Tesla-calculated "safety score".

 

[tls]

"...Have you all seen the Reddit user that is reporting that is insurance went from 1k for six months to over 5k for six months? He posted pictures from Liberty Mutual. No accidents, no tickets, and no idea his information was being shared...."

Do you really BELIEVE anyone on 'reddit'?? That is just a site to 'vent', without regards to facts and true information.

"generally" SPEAKING, there are 'many' FACTORS which I might consider in deciding HOW MUCH 'credence' to give to someone making Factual 'STATEMENTS" online. Whether they're 'posting' to REDDIT or HERE is one of those factors, I SUPPOSE.

 

[Dinozero]

"...Have you all seen the Reddit user that is reporting that is insurance went from 1k for six months to over 5k for six months? He posted pictures from Liberty Mutual. No accidents, no tickets, and no idea his information was being shared...."

Do you really BELIEVE anyone on 'reddit'?? That is just a site to 'vent', without regards to facts and true information. No more believable than folks who spout "my premium DOUBLED!"... which is not factual, and they don't provide any proof of such.. Anytime our cost or premiums go 'up', we tend to over-exaggerate the real numbers.
There are MANY reasons a premium can 'change', but that's hardly a reason to 'assume' that it's just because of 'data' being derived from driving a 'connected car'... I'm highly suspicious and would doubt that the driver/owner/family is 'perfect'... their driving history, adding a new teenage driver, and other factors, are far MOST likely to be any culprit of 'increases'... Insurance Companies also periodically have premium increases, across the board, to ALL customers, at any given time, and has NOTHING to do whatsoever with data or driving history.

Many customers in my agency's past have 'sworn' that they had 'NO' driving history records... their own driver license MVR Report proves much different.

I've had customers who 'swore' their premiums doubled, for NO reason. When I investigate their policy, and what changes have been made during the policy timeframe, we find that they conveniently 'forgot' that they traded their old car for a BRAND NEW one several months back. Their 'old' car had only Liability. Their new car, with financing, requires FULL COVERAGE...a LOT more premium to boot, although the 'base rate' on their policy, overall, has not changed one ioda...

perspective, and memory, have a lot to do with 'assuming' things...

All good points. I hope you’re correct because I enabled the sharing again

I need to see my charging status too OCD to give that up.

 

[FrunkMonk-e]

The difference is that everyone with a violation takes an equivalent hit. It not really “individualized.”

I understand now. However, for me, this is a distinction without a practical difference. Couldn't I be charged more because I was put in the same category as everyone else who does rapid accelerations? It wouldn't be individualized per se, but my rates could go up based on a particular risk profile that the system would automatically put me in. Am I wrong about that?

 

[vvgogh]

I asked the Ford.com chat agent to please provide a listing of data Ford has sold from my vehicle or FordPass phone application. They declined to assist me with either item. They directed me to instead ask in another of their products and refused to connect the chat session to the relevant agent.

"This question will be best handled by the FordPass experts. You can reach them through the FordPass app. To contact a FordPass Guide: • Log in to the FordPass App. • Select More at the bottom right of the screen. • Select Help on the upper left of the screen. • Then, select your preferred contact method (call or chat). FordPass Guides' chat hours are 9:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. EST (Monday to Friday) and 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. EST (Saturday)."​

Ford claims no data is sold or shared with third parties if you are not enrolled (mandatory OPT-IN action) in the Usage Based Insurance Program and refers us to their privacy policy. If it's established Ford is not following their published privacy policy and are selling data outside of the Usage Based Insurance program, it could be cause for lawsuit.

You at 16:04, Mar 14: I would like to receive a listing of data Ford has sold collected from both my vehicle and this FordPass phone application.

Brandon at 16:07, Mar 14: I'll be glad to assist with some information about our privacy policy and any data collection. Data sharing with 3rd parties only happens with explicit permission from our members that are part of the Usage Based Insurance program. Usage Based Insurance is a program that members need to voluntarily sign up for with their insurance provider to monitor their usage to possible lower their insurance rates. If you are not enrolled in UBI with your insurance company then there are no 3rd parties that have access to your information or data.

Brandon at 16:07, Mar 14: Any driving data that we collect internally is used for remote features in your FordPass app only.

You can find extensive information about our privacy policy here: https://www.ford.com/help/privacy/

When I asked which paragraphs describes information Ford will sell, Brandon refers to this section:

Your Disclosure of Information about Your Vehicle to Third Parties

You may directly share information about your connected vehicle, or cause information about your connected vehicle to be shared, with third parties when you choose to use their applications or services that:

• Are made available to you through the vehicle infotainment system;
• Are made available to you through the third party’s app on your mobile device when you connect your mobile device to the vehicle via Bluetooth or tether; or
• Require or permit the account you have with the third party to be linked to a Ford or Lincoln vehicle or mobile application.

If you choose to share information about your vehicle with third parties, once you have shared it, the third party’s terms and conditions and privacy policies (and not this Notice) apply to the shared information.

 

[mefly2]

replace "may" with "is" ...that is all ...

 

[25Mattman]

Ever wonder how insurance companies seem to know EVERYTHING about your driving habits? It's not magic, it's LexisNexis! This data broker might be lurking in the fine print of your Ford agreement, quietly scooping up your driving data and selling it to insurance companies.

Here's the deal: LexisNexis claims it uses "public records," but that can include things you never intended to be public. After the hubbub a few days ago where a user posted their insurance premiums doubling, with the company citing data acquired from LexisNexis. I called Ford Corporate for further clarification and they were not able to tell me that they do not sell my information.


For those still skeptical, They sell data to for-profit spying agency Spying agency sells data to your insurance company. I reccommend you call Ford Corporate and ask for yourself, many of us are surprised by their response.



There are a few things we can do to change this, I have already filed a complaint with my Senator and the Office for Consumer Protection and I recommend you do the same.
To protect yourself from insurance spikes, disable the "Share Driving Data" setting shown on screen. This is enabled by default, and shares information such as your braking habits, speed etc. Turning this off will also hurt Ford in their further development of Bluecruise, hopefully pressuring them to stop screwing over their customers.

Be aware Ford currently punishes users for disabling this feature by revoking their access to charging data, and most of the functionality of the FordPass app.

Once you request your LexisNexis report, keep it on hand. It will be useful if you wish to join the class action lawsuit that will almost certainly be formed. GM is already neck deep after a similar scandal was revealed two days ago, https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/0a813fc8e0ac1b6c/6c03d310-full.pdf

 

[TomB985]

I may be in the minority, but I could care less. USAA offered me a discount for signing up for their SafePilot program, so I download their app and let them snoop. Their app keeps dinging me for phone use while parked, so I haven’t gotten more than a 1% discount, but I don’t worry about it.

If I don’t like how my insurance company uses data, I’ll go with someone else. If this really bothered me, I’d probably turn things off or buy another brand.

 

[25Mattman]

I may be in the minority, but I could care less. USAA offered me a discount for signing up for their SafePilot program, so I download their app and let them snoop. Their app keeps dinging me for phone use while parked, so I haven’t gotten more than a 1% discount, but I don’t worry about it.

If I don’t like how my insurance company uses data, I’ll go with someone else. If this really bothered me, I’d probably turn things off or buy another brand.

You can’t seem to connect how your driving habits such as how hard you are accelerate or brake, where you park, where or when you drive might some how be used by an insurance company to raise your premiums?
Screen touches while in motion, seat belt engaged while in motion, number of individuals in the car while in motion, frequency of alerts for objects nearby. The list goes on. Insurance companies have zero incentive to lower your rates, and data brokers such as LexisNexis will follow you to whatever company you swap to.

 

[Oneand0]

Disable everything today. Thanks for the tip. I drive like a grandpa with my dogs in the truck, but I always disable sharing everything I can.

 

[Squirrel Master]

Disable everything today. Thanks for the tip. I drive like a grandpa with my dogs in the truck, but I always disable sharing everything I can.

unfortunately you disabled your ability to see the charge and set departure times in your Ford app as well doing that.

 

[VAF84]

If there is a clear way to turn off the tracking, I don't mind. However, it can be tricky, and I don't like how there's really no way to clearly know if it's all off. Between the infotainment in the car, your app, and any third party apps, there's a number of ways they can sneak that info; and frankly it really upsets me. Sort of like when you get signed up for mailing list, but no matter how many times you unsubscribe they still manage to find a reason or way to email you again. Honestly, it's infuriating.

I tried the whole thing with State Farm, for extra vehicle I had, but once I figured out they were tracking "hard stop", "fast acceleration", etc... I say no way I'm staying signed up for that. If any manufacturer continues to sell that info even after I opt out; I will not purchase the product.

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